After Brexit for current residents in Spain

[StellaL]

Not sure where all this information is coming from.  We went home (UK) on holiday.  Wife had to pay 40 pounds to see a doctor and then in Specsavers she was refused an eye test because she didn't live in England. We are both pensioners and have worked all our lives, but we're told we are not entitled to anything !

I brought a friend back to the UK from Spain recently. He had a stroke and was suffering mainly with dealing with the medics in Spain as he had lost his abiity to converse in Spanish due to his medical condition. He had lived and worked in Spain for more than 30 years. Upon arrival in the UK I got him registered with my GP and he was immediately given care by the NHS. He didn't have an address in the UK, but merely used mine. There were no checks on his eligibility and he continues to receive care.

StellaL that's how it should be...cradle to grave for all from UK. Not legal though.

[gus-lopez]

"UK state pensioners who live elsewhere in the EEA will now have the same rights to NHS care as people who live in England. This applies to all pensioners who receive a UK state retirement pension and registered for healthcare in Europe with an S1 form."
from here

https://www.expatnetwork.com/expats-have-to-pay-for-nhs-care/


https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/uk/healthcare/health-system/eligibility

or

https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/movingabroad/Pages/Introduction.aspx

If you are living in an EEA country or Switzerland and you receive an exportable UK pension, contribution-based Employment Support Allowance or another exportable benefit, you may be entitled to state healthcare paid for by the UK. You will need to apply for a certificate of entitlement known as an S1 form.

However, if, in addition to your UK pension, you also receive a pension from the country in which you now live, that country will be responsible for your healthcare and an S1 will not be applicable. If you receive your UK pension as well as a pension from an EU member state, but are now living in a different EU state, the country to which you paid contributions toward your pension for the longest period becomes responsible for your healthcare.

For exportable UK pensions and contribution-based Employment Support Allowance, you can apply for your form via the Overseas Healthcare Team in the Department for Work and Pensions on 0191 218 1999.

You may need to liaise with a different team, depending on the exportable benefit. GOV.UK has more information on Claiming benefits if you live, move or travel abroad. You may also wish to speak to the Exportability Team. Please note that different exportable benefits can have different rules in terms of healthcare cover.

Once issued, register the S1 form with the relevant authority in your country of residence. Often you need to do this before you can register for healthcare or obtain a medical card.

Once you have registered your S1 in the country you are moving to, you will be entitled to apply for and use a UK-issued EHIC to access state-funded necessary medical treatment when you visit other EEA countries.

You cannot apply online for a UK-issued EHIC. Instead, you'll need to request an EHIC-E application form with the Overseas Healthcare Team. Simply call 0191 218 1999 from the UK or 0044 (0)191 218 1999 from abroad, (Monday to Friday 8am to 5pm).


"f you live in Europe"

If you live in another EEA country or Switzerland, you will be entitled to a UK-issued EHIC if one of the following applies to you:

    you receive a UK State Pension or exportable UK benefit and have a UK-issued S1 form (certificate of entitlement) registered in your country of residence

from here
https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/EHIC/Pages/about-the-ehic.aspx

A state pensioner has no entitlement to a Spanish Tarjeta de salud ( EHIC) anymore. They reverted to a UK issued one to cut out passing the bill around. Therefore a legally resident, spanish tax paying , Uk Oap has there EHIC issued by the UK.

[Lynden]

Not sure where all this information is coming from.  We went home (UK) on holiday.  Wife had to pay 40 pounds to see a doctor and then in Specsavers she was refused an eye test because she didn't live in England. We are both pensioners and have worked all our lives, but we're told we are not entitled to anything !

I brought a friend back to the UK from Spain recently. He had a stroke and was suffering mainly with dealing with the medics in Spain as he had lost his abiity to converse in Spanish due to his medical condition. He had lived and worked in Spain for more than 30 years. Upon arrival in the UK I got him registered with my GP and he was immediately given care by the NHS. He didn't have an address in the UK, but merely used mine. There were no checks on his eligibility and he continues to receive care.

StellaL that's how it should be...cradle to grave for all from UK. Not legal though.

[StellaL]

Not sure where all this information is coming from.  We went home (UK) on holiday.  Wife had to pay 40 pounds to see a doctor and then in Specsavers she was refused an eye test because she didn't live in England. We are both pensioners and have worked all our lives, but we're told we are not entitled to anything !

I brought a friend back to the UK from Spain recently. He had a stroke and was suffering mainly with dealing with the medics in Spain as he had lost his abiity to converse in Spanish due to his medical condition. He had lived and worked in Spain for more than 30 years. Upon arrival in the UK I got him registered with my GP and he was immediately given care by the NHS. He didn't have an address in the UK, but merely used mine. There were no checks on his eligibility and he continues to receive care.

[JessicaH]

That's why I asked because friends contacted Newcastle to get an EHIC card and was told, as tax residents, it would be issued from Spain.....showing them as visitors to UK.  Might add one wasn't issued here because according to Spain it is responsibility of UK.......
Before Brexit we were already in "no mans land" ........ and some think nothing will change......hmmmmm

[Lynden]

Not sure where all this information is coming from.  We went home (UK) on holiday.  Wife had to pay 40 pounds to see a doctor and then in Specsavers she was refused an eye test because she didn't live in England. We are both pensioners and have worked all our lives, but we're told we are not entitled to anything !

That's correct. As a non resident of the UK you wouldn't be able to. You are supposed to notify HM gov that you are a resident elsewhere. However the only check done is an address or passport; so you can access the NHS etc just by supplying a few details.
If you are a pensioner, having paid your dues to the UK gov I think you should be able to access UK services.....but what's fair doesn't really count.

[eric blindell]

Not sure where all this information is coming from.  We went home (UK) on holiday.  Wife had to pay 40 pounds to see a doctor and then in Specsavers she was refused an eye test because she didn't live in England. We are both pensioners and have worked all our lives, but we're told we are not entitled to anything !

[JessicaH]

Just interested. Has any Brit tax resident in Spain tried to obtain one of these cards recently?

[gus-lopez]

Just because people think scamming the system is clever, Lyndon, doesn't make it right nor me, as a Spanish tax resident, feel poorly.

Rod..presumably UK pay something  " towards" our health care because of reciprocal agreements due to free movement because of membership.  U.K. Only billed for total medical care by holiday visitors using the card.

Still awaiting proof..not guesses .....from those who " know " .at what WILL happen when we are no longer members.

It isn't scamming the system if you are in receipt of a state pension as they have full entitlement to healthcare as a registered spanish resident as well as full entitlement as a UK pensioner.
The EHIC card that a non-resident UK `pensioner receives, supplied by the UK overseas benefit team , is completely different to a normal one that UK resident holiday makers use as it identifies ,when used in the UK ,that you are entitled to full health care.

[lindablyth32]

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After Brexit for current residents in Spain
« on: December 07, 2017, 19:05:49 PM »
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The following is information from ECREU which is negotiating with the EU on our behalf.
__________________________________________________________________________

Some thought is being given to what will be different in Spain after Brexit Day.

We will be required to change our 'residencia' for a 'residencia non Europeo'
All registered Brits who are working may need to show that they exist here -'their footprint'- and that process may well require employing lawyers to wade through the bureaucracy.
Taxation may well be different, i.e., more.


With regards for the registered Brits that are working legally I hope this will be beneficial to them. It will probably mean you will have to fork out more hard earned money for yet more paperwork , but if it means the illegal workers are forced out then so much the better.

[Lynden]

Just because people think scamming the system is clever, Lyndon, doesn't make it right nor me, as a Spanish tax resident, feel poorly.

Rod..presumably UK pay something  " towards" our health care because of reciprocal agreements due to free movement because of membership.  U.K. Only billed for total medical care by holiday visitors using the card.

Still awaiting proof..not guesses .....from those who " know " .at what WILL happen when we are no longer members.

Didn't say it was right JessicaH.....just what seems the norm from what I've seen and heard. As a Spanish tax resident you should be feeling quite chipper with today's announcements. Deal not done yet by a long chalk but if you have all your Spanish ducks in a row then why worry.

[Optomist]

The following is information from ECREU which is negotiating with the EU on our behalf.
__________________________________________________________________________


For example non residency tax is currently 19% for European Citizens and 24% for non Europeans. Inheritance taxation is beneficial for European Citizens and we, of course, will become non Europeans so there are clear cost implications.

.

Not sure i agree with the above statement regarding Inheritance tax , STATE inheritance possibly but here in Andlucia the allowances are far more favorable , the STATE allowance is insignificant by comparison  . What we have now is a regional allowance and my understanding is that it is available to Resident Beneficiaries , not only Spanish or British but any nationality from inside or outside the EU , if thats correct then how would Brexit change that we would still be residents unless they specifically Barr British Residents and i very much doubt they would .

[ajc]

In a nutshell , all of you stop worrying , May will cave in and everything will be business as usual except we I'll just say we are independent , by the way Roger from your first post , we will still be Europeans no matter what happens or did you mean EU citizens ?

[Roger]

Guidelines setting out the EU's proposed future relationship with the UK after Brexit have been leaked.
They say the UK will remain a "member" of the EU's customs union and single market during any transition period, likely to last about two years.
They also suggest the UK will remain under the full jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice for a number of years after the March 2019 exit.
Membership of the single market means keeping all of the EU's "four freedoms" – goods, services, capital, and labour – although the UK government says that new long-term arrivals from the EU (not tourists) will have to register during the transition period.

So therefore nothing will change until at least 2021.
And then probably not much will change.
So it is "Brexit means Brexit, but only in the title not in the reality".

The issue for those of us permanent Spanish residents is that we MAY have to fill in a different form, if and when the Spanish authorities get around to it.
We will also keep all our exiting rights, including health care via S! for those of us who have it now.

The big question will be for new arrivals, both ways.
If they have missed the 5 year deadline, or if they arrive after 2019 their position is not clear.

Of course all this depends of the final agreement being signed, and the PM being able to see of the Tory hardliners like Rees Mogg.
Be interesting to see what Boris does when it goes to cabinet.

[Tetley]

The UK Gov. pay for our health care, not the Spanish so after Brexit there should be no problem for UK pensioners, Spain will still get their money.

but the current uk/eu  treaty,s expires when the uk leaves....the EU.hence the need for a new deal with the" host state "or a continuation of the  current eu deal.

( this it was how it was explained to me by an EU Lawyer person )

however the good news is for anybody in there 30,s 40,s 50,s in good health,private health care is good and fairly cheap,ie abought 18 quid a week with Sanitas.

[JessicaH]

Just because people think scamming the system is clever, Lyndon, doesn't make it right nor me, as a Spanish tax resident, feel poorly.

Rod..presumably UK pay something  " towards" our health care because of reciprocal agreements due to free movement because of membership.  U.K. Only billed for total medical care by holiday visitors using the card.

Still awaiting proof..not guesses .....from those who " know " .at what WILL happen when we are no longer members.

[lmj52]

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/joint_report.pdf

Not sure if the link works.
For those who have been resident in Spain for some time, things are looking a bit clearer. For those just starting the process, not so clever.
The term specified date, is the issue.
Plus of course nothing in detail has been agreed.
It's still only a decision/ agreement in principle.

[Rod]

The UK Gov. pay for our health care, not the Spanish so after Brexit there should be no problem for UK pensioners, Spain will still get their money.

[Tetley]

I wouldn't worry JessicaH you'll make yourself poorly. Just do what all the expats do, Pay the Spanish coin for the basic health and for anything else do a spot of health tourism back to the UK. You've paid in so use it.

plus yer WFA   :great:

[Lynden]

I wouldn't worry JessicaH you'll make yourself poorly. Just do what all the expats do, Pay the Spanish coin for the basic health and for anything else do a spot of health tourism back to the UK. You've paid in so use it.

[JessicaH]

Even when I have successful transcribed posts by Tetley he is usually someone I don't agree with..however... this  time I do ..and whole heartedly.
Of everything I have read or heard about how the outcome might affect us,nowhere and by no-one, has it even been hinted that life won't change one iota for retirees in any EU country.
The health rights of people working within the union, yes, retirees...no....but please point me in the direction of where this has been mentioned if you disagree.
Even this morning it was stated that the result was open to different opinions.
Because that is the way of the real world...not that of LaLa land that many would like it to be.

[Tetley]

Thing is

the posative everybody can take out of this,is that the UK GOVI has had its" coller felt "from the back of the red bus by the big buisness number crunchers with there 5 ad 10 year uk investment plans,hence the "Cabinate " know they have to get a trade deal or both sides are disadvanteged,wich explains why they have had the "sence" to  "roll over ".

Mrs Foster didnt look to happy tho.

2018  

[Roger]

What Tetley is saying is correct.
All the agreements on the table are just draft documents.
Until the final deal is agreed by everyone there is no deal.
All the independent commentators are pointing out the big problem if there is to be any deal.

1. The Irish Republic is demanding that there is free movement of people ad trade between the north and the south, which will require following EU regulations.
2. The DUP and many Tory MPs are demanding the Northern Ireland must not be treated differently from the rest of the UK.
3. The Tory right wing MPs are demanding that from April 2019 the UK must be free of all EU regulations.

There 3 points are incompatible, and this issue is not yet on the table.

[zilnor]

Poor old Nigel ! He is not a happy bunny.

I suspect he may be right and May has given in, but no surprise there.  :72:

[Tetley]

Nigel
Your glass is half empty this morning  :57:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/889711/Brexit-news-Theresa-May-Nigel-Farage-LBC-Brexit-deal-EU-European-Union-UK .... :57: :57:

[zilnor]

Tets,
Your glass is half empty this morning  :57:

[Tetley]

its my veiw,the full deal isnt done till its done

when your out and abought we have a lot of brit pensioners here well into there 70,s now,needing the same equal rights to medical and free movment for themselfs and there familys as they currently have now,just because there is some" draft" floating abought to save Germays budget and UK Tory brexit arses doesent mean to say that they will end up with exactly rights on the final sign off deal between the current 28 member states.


anyway 2018 will be the year .

[Angleseyite]

Tets,

You can stop worrying now. UK citizens living in the EU can continue to do so, same as EU citizens living in UK.  :72:

Common sense does sometimes prevail !  :72:

yes this is what they tell young law apprentices,apparently however theres are diffrent levels of sence and " the sence" in normally inturpreted diffrently by each side of the debate to varying levels.

Brexit deal aint done till its done on the full job by all 28 states........(and there parliments....good luck with that one esp the UK )

All will be well  in the new look world Tets, no need for any of this fretting, :72:

[Tetley]

Tets,

You can stop worrying now. UK citizens living in the EU can continue to do so, same as EU citizens living in UK.  :72:

Common sense does sometimes prevail !  :72:

yes this is what they tell young law apprentices,apparently however theres are diffrent levels of sence and " the sence" in normally inturpreted diffrently by each side of the debate to varying levels.

Brexit deal aint done till its done on the full job by all 28 states........(and there parliments....good luck with that one esp the UK )

[zilnor]

Tets,

You can stop worrying now. UK citizens living in the EU can continue to do so, same as EU citizens living in UK.  :72:

Common sense does sometimes prevail !  :72:

[zilnor]

Oh dear Tets,
You continue with your doom and gloom forecasts.

I don't agree with all that Roger says and we are far apart politically, but he says it in a measured, clear, and understandable way, unlike your prolonged anti-British rants, which few of us can decipher.

Quote from Roger's last  post :

" Britain has offered EU citizens the vote therefore Spain should reciprocate" .

A positive gesture by the UK. Can you not acknowledge this ?

[Tetley]

What you have omitted Rog is

also whatever shxt the uk government inflict on Spanish citizens in the UK Will be recipricated...this end.

also the medical

if the deal isnt re done this is going to be very problamatic

and as everybody keeps telling us........the full deal isnt done till the full deal is done.


my veiw is and always has been,that they may sort Irealand out,however the citizens rights.....although there bullshxting that its nearly there......could still be the stumbling block on the final deal,unless the present statues Q  is maintained,as Eastern European countrys arnt going to vote away there citizens rights just to save German,s Budget hole or a few less Merc sales.

2018 is the year,were the British parliment will shake ,both houses.

[Roger]

The following is information from ECREU which is negotiating with the EU on our behalf.
__________________________________________________________________________

Some thought is being given to what will be different in Spain after Brexit Day.

We will be required to change our 'residencia' for a 'residencia non Europeo'
All registered Brits who are working may need to show that they exist here -'their footprint'- and that process may well require employing lawyers to wade through the bureaucracy.
Taxation may well be different, i.e., more.
For example non residency tax is currently 19% for European Citizens and 24% for non Europeans. Inheritance taxation is beneficial for European Citizens and we, of course, will become non Europeans so there are clear cost implications.

Brexit Day is set for 29 March 2019 and just two months later, on Sunday 26 May 2019, there will be local elections in Spain. We British citizens are currently allowed to vote in Spanish local elections because we are European Union citizens. But we will not be EU citizens on 26 May and therefore not allowed to vote.
Michel Barnier has indicated that countries can make 'bilateral agreements' allowing British citizens to vote.
Britain has offered EU citizens the vote and therefore Spain should reciprocate. I asked the Ambassador if we can start to have negotiations with the Spanish government prior to Brexit day and in time to allow us to vote, permitting the many British people who wish to stand as candidates for their local councils to do so.