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Author Topic: The future possibilty of sell your house  (Read 6180 times)
falcon
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« on: June 18, 2012, 22:38:02 PM »

Under the heading Albanchez a contributor says there are about 10000 illegal houses in this area
It is difficult to sell you house now imagine how hard it will be when they legalise 10000 more properties and even more houses are put up for sale
You may as well give up and make the best of what you have
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« on: June 18, 2012, 22:38:02 PM »

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Gal
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2012, 22:55:11 PM »

But it's difficult for everyone to sell at the moment, not just those in 'illegal' areas.

Banks have thousands of repos on their books.  Why would anyone buy a private/agent property when the banks are bending over backwards to get rid of their empty repos?

It would have to be a really fantastic place to get a private sellers price.  The trouble is so many are also still stuck with a British mentality.  Those who say 'I paid 100k ten years ago so now my property is worth at least 200k'.   It just hasn't worked out like that though has it.   Great if it was a guarantee but it isn't here.  Here isn't the UK with a limited stock of property, at least a sort of stable job market etc.

Here was a 'Place in the Sun' where the agents had their speels about getting 300 euros per week rentals and doubling your money etc. etc.   What is sad is that there are so many trapped in that mentality.

The reality is that I know friends who paid 100k for their properties and since then i've found out from locals that the places were up for sale for less than 20k just a year before.  What a great bonus for the seller.  What a shame as now the property is back to the original 20/30k price tag but the owners have in their mind that it's worth more than what they paid for it. 

The agents can still advertise places for whatever they believe will get them the job to sell the place.  How many agents put a house on their books and then nothing is heard for months, even years.

The banks are finding it difficult selling places at the moment for peanuts......    so who's going to sell a property at the moment unless it's a mansion for quarter of it's value.  The only buyers are pushing hard bargins.  The boom has finished and people have sussed out what the real situ is here haven't they?   

They can legalise the properties but I guess it won't make much difference when nothing is moving, and won't for quite a while yet.     We should encourage rentals to let people suss out the areas, be happy with what they can see with the reality here and then they'll make for happy neighbours/purchasers when their time is right.   Happier and positive people is what all these areas need....not more heads in the sand trying to scam the next lot out of the boat.


?
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2012, 22:55:11 PM »

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cfmp
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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2012, 13:39:51 PM »

Well said, Gal.  It is the same in most part of the UK, but to a lesser extent.  Neighbours of us insisted on putting their house for sale with a price tag significantly higher than their purchase price in 2003.  The house was left on the market for over 2 years, they have finally sold it and for what... a lower price they had previously bought it for.  The time of making a quick profit from buying and selling a property is gone and people have to accept it.  Today, you buy a house because you like it/it is convenient, not to make a quick profit. 
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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2012, 13:39:51 PM »

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Roger
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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2012, 13:51:29 PM »

Those who bought 10 years ago will probably have paid the correct price and now will be able to sell at a reasonable price.
But I saw the market take off out of all measure to the real value.
One builder in Arboleas added 50K to the price overnight because of the demand.
And clients were still queuing up with open cheque books.

Houses which were bought new for 90k are now on the market for 150k.
Similar houses were costing 200k a few years later and are also on the market for 150k.

The biggest problem yet to hit is this.
We have builders who, desperate for clients, expanded onto rustic land and also promised their clients large mortgages to get them to pay a deposit.
When we (hopefully soon) sort out the urban mess, these clients will have to pay the builder with a mortgage, but we know they will not be able to find one.
Result.
Clients in houses they do not own.
Builders with massive overdrafts they cannot service.

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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2012, 13:51:29 PM »

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byrney
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2012, 14:18:21 PM »

I will repeat from the outset of this post that I am genuinely sorry for people who find themselves in a situation where they have an illegal house through no fault of their own.
However, I must admit that I do have a slight difficulty with people who say they have "lost money" by buying here and are now having to sell at a much reduced price.
Say the GBP/Euro rate was around 1.50 (which it was six years ago when we bought), then a house costing €150,000 would have cost GBP100,000.
So, now the rate is around 1.24, then even if they have to reduce the cost to €124,000 (a "loss" of €26,000), they will still get their GBP100,000 back.  Therefore, they haven´t really "lost" but have had the priviledge of living here at a much lower cost of living than in the UK for "free".
Yes, people who were buying over here to "make a killing" have "lost" (ie they have not made the profit that they expected to make), but that is the calculated risk that they took at the time.
I know my figures are rounded to simplfy things, and I know that I have not included fees etc.
Am I correct, or am I completely missing the point?
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2012, 14:18:21 PM »

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alfie
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2012, 14:31:34 PM »

Byrney - no, I think your point of view is completely correct. There is no reason why house prices MUST increase and when there is over-supply it is inevitable that prices will decline, especially when there is an economic downturn.
Florida is suffering a similar housing situation, with property prices falling 50% in the last three years, so this is not a uniquely Spanish position.
The value of your house is only what a buyer is prepared to pay for it, and the original purchase price, refurbishments, extensions, pool etc, make no difference to the value.
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2012, 14:31:34 PM »

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cgmaywood
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2012, 20:06:14 PM »

We sold our place last October we took less than the price advertised by the agent but as Byrney says we actually got back more in sterling than we paid for it so did not lose out. 

We did spend a lot on renovations but we lived in the property for seven years and had the benefit of what had been done.

I know a few people who still think their properties are worth what they were in the boom time and will never be able to sell them because they are not being realistic.

As has been said the property is only worth what somebody is prepared to pay.

We had our house on the market for four years before receiving an offer, we snapped the buyers hands off.

I also sympathise with people who have illegal properties through no fault of their own but some sellers really need to sit down and have a think about what they are asking/expecting for their properties.

Chrissy
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2012, 20:06:14 PM »

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El curato
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« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2012, 20:39:26 PM »

The TV show place in the sun have just finished filming in the Mojacar area last week, it will be on TV in September!!. This will no doubt bring renewed interest in the Almeria region
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« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2012, 20:39:26 PM »

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rt21
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« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2012, 22:03:04 PM »

Under the heading Albanchez a contributor says there are about 10000 illegal houses in this area
It is difficult to sell you house now imagine how hard it will be when they legalise 10000 more properties and even more houses are put up for sale
You may as well give up and make the best of what you have


I agree with your synopsis of the property market. Selling a house in a recession is always going to be difficult particularly with high unemployment and a shortage of mortgage loans. If you can hold out it would be best to sit tight.


Richard
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« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2012, 22:03:04 PM »

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Albondigas
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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2012, 09:04:55 AM »

I will repeat from the outset of this post that I am genuinely sorry for people who find themselves in a situation where they have an illegal house through no fault of their own.
However, I must admit that I do have a slight difficulty with people who say they have "lost money" by buying here and are now having to sell at a much reduced price.
Say the GBP/Euro rate was around 1.50 (which it was six years ago when we bought), then a house costing €150,000 would have cost GBP100,000.
So, now the rate is around 1.24, then even if they have to reduce the cost to €124,000 (a "loss" of €26,000), they will still get their GBP100,000 back.  Therefore, they haven´t really "lost" but have had the priviledge of living here at a much lower cost of living than in the UK for "free".
Yes, people who were buying over here to "make a killing" have "lost" (ie they have not made the profit that they expected to make), but that is the calculated risk that they took at the time.
I know my figures are rounded to simplfy things, and I know that I have not included fees etc.
Am I correct, or am I completely missing the point?

You're not missing the point, but many people have actually invested thousands into their property on improvements etc. instead of simply buying the property and doing little or nothing to it.

If you buy somewhere for 100,000 euros and then spend 50,000 on extending/improving it to a much higher spec....is it really unreasonable to expect that 10 years later when you go to sell it that you ask around 150,000?
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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2012, 09:04:55 AM »

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Gal
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2012, 09:37:23 AM »

It sadly is unreasonable when the 100,000 price paid was double or triple what it should have been.  That's the trouble.  I know that my two Spanish neighbours paid 32,000 euros and 17,000 euros for their flats about three and five years before we paid 130,000 euros.    What can I do about that now, nothing.   What I can't do is sell the flat until we pay off a lot of the mortgage because it is unreasonable to even consider that someone would pay for ours when there are others at quarter of the price.

What has happened here with the 'boom' has blown all our pre-conceptions of what was the previous norm regarding property.  Buy, renovate, sell and make a profit.    The local Spanish would build or inherit a house and live in it for the rest of their lives and then one of their children would take it on.  Buying a flat might have been when one of them made some money in Switzerland and bought a place by the sea for the August holidays.   I would guess that most of those people still have their places since the 1960's/70's because they don't see it as a value in money but in the use they have out of it during the summer with their families.   It's the younger lot who sussed out that property or land would/could make them rich.   That can explain the massive overbuild problem and the barbaric number of Spanish families being made homeless when they can't pay their enormous mortgages.

People can advertise their property for 150k but they are doing it with the British mentality of 'why aren't we making a profit' so the price is too high and not attracting viewers.    I wonder if the same house advertised for 99,999 euros would get five people viewing in the same week?     
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2012, 09:37:23 AM »

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Tetley
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« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2012, 10:03:49 AM »

Just out of intrest folks who is going to buy property here now ?

i bought in 2000 pre boom ,shortly afterwards the TV  is plastered with homes in the sun,Johny & Dell opening a budgie shop in outer mongooler and all the Brits were off....out of the UK.

now its finished,its over supplyed,  over priced,plus the banks will have to un load there bad debt at some point at knock off prices....

So were will the new buyers come from ?

i listened to radio 2 yesterday J Vine and they were on abought folks working in the uk whom were one pay check from going under and one lady seid when bank rates go up again a lot of folks will go under and looose there homes... so there is no more boom buyers from the UK on there way here to buy as per 2000 onwards to 2007.
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Roger
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« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2012, 10:30:43 AM »

Tetley.

People are buying.
We are getting a steady trickle of new residents in the Town Hall, having bought re sale properties.
It is very small and I think it will gradually impove, but will never reach the boom years.
And sellers have to be realistic about the value of their property.
During the boom years the houses were at least 50% over valued.
When they started building in Los Carrascos early 2000 the all inclusive price on the hoarding was 99.000 euros.
At the then exchange rate that was 70k sterling.
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byrney
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« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2012, 10:44:52 AM »

Roger,
Good to hear you have confirmed my feeling (from what I hear in local bars) that sales are now starting to take place, albeit slowly.  But, at least that should give sellers a glimmer of hope.
Also, you have confirmed what I said in my earleir post that someone in, your example, Los Carrascos buying ten years ago at €99,000 (GBP70,000) could sell their house at a "loss" of €15,000 and still have their GBP70,000.  OK, not a profit, but then not an actual loss - and 12 years of benefit of the property and the low living costs.
As for Albondigas, are there really people who have spent €50,000 on improving a €100,000 property?  That sounds almost like a rebuild, or doubling of the size of the property.  In which case, it begs the question why with all the superb property available at the time for such a low price didn´t they buy something which more met their needs?  Just curious.
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Tetley
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« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2012, 10:49:33 AM »

Roger
you incorrecrt

according to local scourses the first los corracos houses in 1998 started at approx 8/9m pstas

when i bought my house,i have local press cutouts for the same houses at approx 36000 quid uk for los corracos.

ive have a video i took of all the houses and house prices for Arboleas & Albox taken in march 2000  showing plenty of new homes on large plots ie 1000m plus from 57k uk money and old farm house dooer uppers from 6000 quid uk money,plus renovated homes for around 27000 quid with land.

people may buy again,but not in the volume both you and me rember unless it drops to the prices that both you and me payed wich may happen  again deppending on what happens within the EU  and how big the bust is.

just out of further intrest Rustic land here used to be around 2 to 3 e a meter and within 2 years the same land was being sold off @60e a meter and more for plots.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 11:06:05 AM by Tetley » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2012, 10:49:33 AM »

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falcon
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« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2012, 12:06:45 PM »

I have to agree with Tetley the house prices he quotes are probably about right but in other areas you could get them even cheaper
The funny thing is that the value of campo land has not really risen in the last 10 years
I recently was asked to purchase some land with olives and other fruit trees on it I made enquiries with the locals who told me this land was worth about 4 euros per metre
That is not much different than 10 years ago
When I approached the party and offered 5 euros he turned me down flat
#Anyway he eventually sold the land for 4.50 per metre to another spaniard and the spanish told me they thought he was tonto
If you really want to move you can still get property in Brittany for 6000 to 10000 euros for developement why would people in the UK purchase here
I did consider purchasing a holiday home in Brittany on a fractional shared owner ship basis. if anybody out there is interested you can send me a PM 
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Albondigas
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« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2012, 14:45:48 PM »


As for Albondigas, are there really people who have spent €50,000 on improving a €100,000 property?  That sounds almost like a rebuild, or doubling of the size of the property.  In which case, it begs the question why with all the superb property available at the time for such a low price didn´t they buy something which more met their needs?  Just curious.

Hi Byrney

We've done just that (although I wish our property had cost 100,000 euros back in 2002 (boom time here in Almeria)
 - Purchased a legal property that needed a lot of work, we've also extended it (again all legally, which doesn't come cheap after paying for architects and licences etc)

You can't imagine that people pay 50,000 for improvements or an extension?  Maybe not if they have the know-how themselves and merely have to buy materials - everyone else has to pay builders, they don't come cheap, even the useless ones!


If you put in a decent pool, air conditioning, water pump/storage, proper septic tank, fencing etc.....that's going to cost approx 30 grand, before you even start talking about  an extension!


No, we wouldn't have invested that kind of money if we'd moved to one of the "danger" zones where the legality of properties has been disputed for several years (although many poor souls did so, before the problems came to light)

Many people purchased here 2000-2005, which were peak times for property prices and thought that they were making an excellent long term investment in light of the estate agents telling everyone that Costa Almeria would be joining  Costa del Sol and Costa Blanca in terms of infrastructure and facilities within the next few years.  Never happened, did it?  Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 14:47:53 PM by Albondigas » Logged
byrney
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« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2012, 18:06:15 PM »

Point taken Albondigas.  Am just as upset for you, and others in your situation, as I am for those people who have ended up with an illegal property.  At least from what you say you at least don´t fall into that category.
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