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Author Topic: Albanchez  (Read 20375 times)
David C
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« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2012, 13:27:11 PM »

As the AUAN broadly represents everyone's interest and has the infrastructure to advise and support us all why not [at least in Albanchez] form a political arm and after 1000 days of public activity, banners, fliers in cars, there is bound to be success in the next elections on to our council. That is if some people are motivated enough to stand for election. There must be someone in the AUAN that has the language skills to do the job and support those with lower ability. It would be a start for me to understand If as a non resident villa owner [paying all taxes] I am eligible to vote and what paperwork is necessary.
Possibly open a local AUAN office or regular meeting once a month in Albanchez in one of the bars
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David C
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« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2012, 13:27:11 PM »

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enjay
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« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2012, 14:00:53 PM »

Or you could even join the AUAN.
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« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2012, 14:00:53 PM »

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cotterill
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« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2012, 14:28:34 PM »

As the AUAN broadly represents everyone's interest and has the infrastructure to advise and support us all why not [at least in Albanchez] form a political arm and after 1000 days of public activity, banners, fliers in cars, there is bound to be success in the next elections on to our council. That is if some people are motivated enough to stand for election. There must be someone in the AUAN that has the language skills to do the job and support those with lower ability. It would be a start for me to understand If as a non resident villa owner [paying all taxes] I am eligible to vote and what paperwork is necessary.
Possibly open a local AUAN office or regular meeting once a month in Albanchez in one of the bars

I am really sorry David, what you are saying is, I have to pay for my info but you get yours free, all the other AUAN members from other villages who pay for their info, advice etc but you get yours free, ( YOU DO NOT GET A BOGOF WHEN SOMEONE JOINS THE AUAN)
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« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2012, 14:28:34 PM »

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Maura_Hillen
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« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2012, 14:37:28 PM »

People have several options:

a) You can organise yourselves into an association and we will be happy to come and talk to you to get you up to speed.
b) You can join AUAN and start discussing us doing all the things that have been proposed.
c) You can ask another group/political party to help you.
d) You can attend meetings with the mayor and all ask questions about your own situation at the same time and get nowhere.

Regarding the mayor cutting your water off to force you to apply for paperwork. There is no proof of this. However, if as one poster claims, this is the result of AUAN objecting to you not been given enough information regarding the Decree and what you are being told to apply for and the consequences for you if your application is rejected..... who is the baddie in this scenario??

Also, someone asked what AUAN has achieved?

In the beginning
-When the illegal homes issue came to light around 2006, some homeowners (members) were taken to a hut in the mountains by the Guardia Civil to be interviewed about their roles as promoters of illegal houses. Others were also arrested.

-A number of criminal cases were brought against homeowners for the illegal construction of houses because the wording on their contracts made them the promoter.

-The Junta de Anadalucia, the Spanish press and general public saw homeowners as complicit in the scandal.

-Mr & Mrs Priors house was demolished.

Then the homeowners got together and did something

-AUAN and like minded organisations changed all that through campaigning and publicity and protest marches.

-The courts stopped blaming the homeowner. The Spanish press has become more sympathetic. The Junta de Andalucia still blames you, by the way!.

- The Junta had demolished a number of houses since the Priors house. None of them foreign owned because of the backlash in the foreign press organised by organisations such as ours.

- Groups like ours nagged and embarrassed and negotiated with the Junta de Andalucia, paying lawyers and technicians to present our case for change in ways that were reasonable, intelligent and achievable. The end result of which is the Decree to Regularise Houses in Andalucia (2/2012) which may/or may not help you to get paperwork for YOUR house. We are not happy with the outcome and want more but with current levels of support we seriously doubt that we can do it.

- We took YOUR case to the European Petitions committee and unusually were invited to deliver the petition in person.

Locally
At a local level we tried to make sure that your town hall behaves reasonable and with transparency during the planning process. This has resulted in the filing of planning objections against various councils for various reasons. Here are a few:

Cantoria: Objected to the application of protected land status to houses in El Fas, Hoya Alto, Hoya Bajo, Oica and La Hoya. The protection was removed.

Arobleas: Objected to all modifications to the Arboleas town plan prepared by the previous administration based on lack of transparency and proper public
consultations. Were we wrong about that?

Albox: Asked for more homes to be included within a plan. More homes were included. Lately, we have objected to the level of protection applied to zones of land within the policing zones of waterways. We might just win that one also.

Albanchez: We have objected to the way in which the Decree has been implemented in this town.

All legal, technical and translation costs funded by the membership.

Could we do more?
Of course we could. We have the knowledge, the expertise, the political contacts (UK,Europe, Spain) and the press contacts. What we lack is the backing of the homeowners and the funding.


Anyway, I need to get on with other stuff ..... good luck with whatever you decide to do.


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« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2012, 14:37:28 PM »

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zilnor
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« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2012, 14:37:46 PM »

Round 10,000 illegal properties in our area and only 450 members of the AUAN. Says it all about the Brit community here. Heads in the sand. Apathy. Most Brits I speak to here seem to think their properties are legal. Cloud cookoo land. The vast majority of houses are now  only worth half of what we paid for them so it affects all properties, the legal ones too. I do not believe anyone is so hard up that they are unable to pay one euro a week membership.  :head
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« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2012, 14:37:46 PM »

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zilnor
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« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2012, 14:41:20 PM »

Maura and the committee of the UAN deserve medals for their heroic efforts in trying to sort out this horrendous situation. Three cheers for Maura and the AUAN  ! !
 :tiphat: :tiphat: clap clap :tiphat: :tiphat: clap clap :tiphat: :tiphat: clap clap :wave
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« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2012, 14:41:20 PM »

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cotterill
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« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2012, 15:01:34 PM »

People have several options:

a) You can organise yourselves into an association and we will be happy to come and talk to you to get you up to speed.
b) You can join AUAN and start discussing us doing all the things that have been proposed.
c) You can ask another group/political party to help you.
d) You can attend meetings with the mayor and all ask questions about your own situation at the same time and get nowhere.

Regarding the mayor cutting your water off to force you to apply for paperwork. There is no proof of this. However, if as one poster claims, this is the result of AUAN objecting to you not been given enough information regarding the Decree and what you are being told to apply for and the consequences for you if your application is rejected..... who is the baddie in this scenario??

Also, someone asked what AUAN has achieved?

In the beginning
-When the illegal homes issue came to light around 2006, some homeowners (members) were taken to a hut in the mountains by the Guardia Civil to be interviewed about their roles as promoters of illegal houses. Others were also arrested.

-A number of criminal cases were brought against homeowners for the illegal construction of houses because the wording on their contracts made them the promoter.

-The Junta de Anadalucia, the Spanish press and general public saw homeowners as complicit in the scandal.

-Mr & Mrs Priors house was demolished.

Then the homeowners got together and did something

-AUAN and like minded organisations changed all that through campaigning and publicity and protest marches.

-The courts stopped blaming the homeowner. The Spanish press has become more sympathetic. The Junta de Andalucia still blames you, by the way!.

- The Junta had demolished a number of houses since the Priors house. None of them foreign owned because of the backlash in the foreign press organised by organisations such as ours.

- Groups like ours nagged and embarrassed and negotiated with the Junta de Andalucia, paying lawyers and technicians to present our case for change in ways that were reasonable, intelligent and achievable. The end result of which is the Decree to Regularise Houses in Andalucia (2/2012) which may/or may not help you to get paperwork for YOUR house. We are not happy with the outcome and want more but with current levels of support we seriously doubt that we can do it.

- We took YOUR case to the European Petitions committee and unusually were invited to deliver the petition in person.

Locally
At a local level we tried to make sure that your town hall behaves reasonable and with transparency during the planning process. This has resulted in the filing of planning objections against various councils for various reasons. Here are a few:

Cantoria: Objected to the application of protected land status to houses in El Fas, Hoya Alto, Hoya Bajo, Oica and La Hoya. The protection was removed.

Arobleas: Objected to all modifications to the Arboleas town plan prepared by the previous administration based on lack of transparency and proper public
consultations. Were we wrong about that?

Albox: Asked for more homes to be included within a plan. More homes were included. Lately, we have objected to the level of protection applied to zones of land within the policing zones of waterways. We might just win that one also.

Albanchez: We have objected to the way in which the Decree has been implemented in this town.

All legal, technical and translation costs funded by the membership.

Could we do more?
Of course we could. We have the knowledge, the expertise, the political contacts (UK,Europe, Spain) and the press contacts. What we lack is the backing of the homeowners and the funding.


Anyway, I need to get on with other stuff ..... good luck with whatever you decide to do.



MAURA:  A very well done for that list of achievements  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: clap clap clap clap
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« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2012, 15:01:34 PM »

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cotterill
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« Reply #77 on: June 17, 2012, 15:35:31 PM »

""Regarding the mayor cutting your water off to force you to apply for paperwork. There is no proof of this""

Your own members said this. If it wasn't him then WHO?


This was not said as a AUAN member but someone who lives on the mountain and had their water turned off, and was told that is what had happened,

And who was it that said this, The only AUAN activity seen here is the objection on 24 April - the following week the mayor turned the water off.

At the end of the day we can all seat in front of our computers moaning, criticizing, complaining, apart from the AUAN who is actually trying to help us.

we are all in the same boat or should I say on the same mountain what happens to me will probably happen to others and I think there is a long road ahead so instead of moaning about what is or is not working lets get together and do something constructive about the situation.

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« Reply #77 on: June 17, 2012, 15:35:31 PM »

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David C
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« Reply #78 on: June 17, 2012, 15:57:29 PM »

quote; Or you could even join the AUAN.
This is a perfectly reasonable comment and one I will discuss with you next week.
There is no question of me not joining, and I will be delighted to join and pay and participate in any organisation that brings the Albanchez folk together but until now I have heard inter AUAN rivalry and views expressed here with which I didn't agree. Not being local and able to contribute [or correct] my opinions via an elected rep or local meeting I have kept away.
This is very likely the position of other folk.
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David C
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« Reply #78 on: June 17, 2012, 15:57:29 PM »

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David C
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« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2012, 16:07:07 PM »

Maura and the committee of the UAN deserve medals for their heroic efforts in trying to sort out this horrendous situation. Three cheers for Maura and the AUAN  ! !
Just to avoid any ambiguity...I totally agree and hope to have the opportunity to meet.
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David C
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« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2012, 16:07:07 PM »

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mclaine
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« Reply #80 on: June 18, 2012, 20:36:31 PM »

Can someone give me some info on AUAN, what they are, do etc. I do hope they are not a 'I'm on a committee' type of thing, had too much of that in the past.
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« Reply #80 on: June 18, 2012, 20:36:31 PM »

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Tetley
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« Reply #81 on: June 18, 2012, 20:42:31 PM »

Can someone give me some info on AUAN, what they are, do etc. I do hope they are not a 'I'm on a committee' type of thing, had too much of that in the past.

They are a group of local residents tying to prevent this on mass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q89mu1xehhs

however unfortanatly there are only 450 of them out of 1000,s of effected home owners,because its a bought 50e to join wich means that people wont be able to go out for a meal,shame realy.

This is Mrs Hillen the AUAN President at the EU    
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkqzQuV8AO8
if you look closley you may just see a glint of Irish Steel.  :tiphat:


here is one of those Jolly AUAN days out &  Marches as well (i went on this one because i was at a bit of a loose end as my tv had gone wrong and my whist drive had been cancelled )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfrVvgJ0cI4
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 21:11:44 PM by Tetley » Logged
Lynne
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« Reply #82 on: June 19, 2012, 09:29:32 AM »

AUAN website: http://www.almanzora-au.org/
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You can't always control who walks into your life...but you CAN control which window you throw them out of.
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« Reply #82 on: June 19, 2012, 09:29:32 AM »

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Roger
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« Reply #83 on: June 19, 2012, 12:42:32 PM »

A brief comment on the basis of personal experience on how Spanish Town Halls work.

An opposition councillor has zero influence and zero access to the real facts.
This is because the Mayor is all powerful and the officials will refer you to him. And since you are the opposition it is in his interest to keep the real information from you.

The Mayor will deal with citizens and associations of citizens
BUT he will tell you what he wants you to know and what he thinks you want to hear.
This is very different from the truth.

The attitude of most Spanish politicians in this region is that we are outsiders and a nuisance. They wanted our money and allowed the builders, abogados and architects to do what they wanted in the interest of money.
Now they do not want the bother of sorting out the problems their citizens face. (If we do not like it here we can always go back to our luxury homes in the UK!!!!)

Before anyone misunderstands me, this is not now the situation in Arboleas.
However it WAS prior to 13 June 2011. That is why I refused a lone British seat within the ruling PSOE and why I organised a joint British/Spanish list to represent ALL the citizens.

In short, there is only one thing that matters, and that is political power.
And even then let no-one think it is easy to solve the problems.
In Arboleas we have 7 active councillors working to solve the problems and we are uncovering more and more every day.
It will take us another 3 years (hopefully) to get most of them solved.




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sandralos
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« Reply #84 on: June 19, 2012, 13:04:11 PM »

Very informative - thank you for that Roger, thought that would be the case - the all powerful Mayor!!      But saying that Albanchez is still a lovely place to live - long may it continue.
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« Reply #84 on: June 19, 2012, 13:04:11 PM »

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Tetley
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« Reply #85 on: June 19, 2012, 13:05:20 PM »

Very intresting post Roger,what is even more intresting tho in Arboleas is the fact that if push comes to shuv the 3 British councilors have the say in the council chamber ie your party might wish to bring a policy in or increase a local charge but without the 3 Brits voting for it nothing moves in Arboleas.

as you know i was VERY  anti British councilours however to give you yourself credit i carnt help thinking that people must be further on now than they were 2 years ago and in your own way you Mike and Mark are doing your vey best to make sure the Brits are kept well informed and were possible advised.

its going to be a very long haul tho i think on the home leglisation front..however onwards & upwards.

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Tetley
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« Reply #86 on: June 19, 2012, 13:29:17 PM »

Roger
genuine question.

on my patch in Hull they tried to close our village school ... 38 kids between 4 to 11   150 year old school ,we organised an action group i let the kids paint two big large furniture vans that i  then used to park out side of the local media & and council offices every day, and on the morning of the full council meeting we had the 2 vans driving around our local county hall with air horns blasting and council staff waving out of the windows.... result schools open and extended.

Do you think people power works here ? ie if 400 Arboleas residents get the hump abought a policy and turn up at a council meeting.... in your experience as a councilor of many years what do you tell your party ie...

1 ) ignore them they will go away or 2 ) O  for xxxx sake thats all we need we had better get this sorted.  ?

 :tiphat:
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 13:32:05 PM by Tetley » Logged
Roger
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« Reply #87 on: June 19, 2012, 14:34:39 PM »

It would be wrong to leave the impression that the British Councillors in Arboleas have to constantly defend the rights of the British community.

We joined up with Cristobal because he convinced us that he recognises the valuable contribution which the non Spanish residents bring to the town, and that he accepts the duty of responsibility for all the citizens of the town.
In this he has not let us down.

This week he will be in Almeria most of the time to try to un block the problems in getting approval for our urban plan
We have had meetings with Galasa and we believe we have now un blocked the problems in getting water contracts for everyone.

There is so much work taking place on all fronts that it would be impossible to report on all of it.

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Tetley
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« Reply #88 on: June 19, 2012, 14:55:14 PM »

It would be wrong to leave the impression that the British Councillors in Arboleas have to constantly defend the rights of the British community.


That fair comment Roger but it must be born in mind that the 3 british councilors do hold the balance of power in the chamber and they were voted in to represent the Brits.... to quote you

"the only way politics can be fought is from the inside " or words to the effect.

whats your angle on people power here Roger as i outlined in my question above  in my experience it seems to work in the UK.. how abought here ?

« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 15:03:29 PM by Tetley » Logged
Roger
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« Reply #89 on: June 19, 2012, 17:11:32 PM »

The only people power that counts is the same everywhere,
the barrel of a kilashnikov
or the voting booth.

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Tetley
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« Reply #90 on: June 19, 2012, 17:17:48 PM »

The only people power that counts is the same everywhere,
the barrel of a kilashnikov
or the voting booth.



In Hull Rog you carnt realy run round with a Kilashnikov however we did have i good independent councilour on the cause so it all turned out well on the day.

lets hope we dont end up with a town hall full of local residents with Kilashnikovs this end  tho,seeing as they already have the power of the voting booth sorted  .  ;)
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suziesue
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« Reply #91 on: June 19, 2012, 17:35:51 PM »

I'm aware that I can buy a AK47 or two in the valley area (no names, no packdrill  :-X ) for around 250 euros. Didn't bother so far because I don't know if I'm being ripped off - what is the going rate these days?

If things don't start to get better 250 seems to be a good deal, comes with a full pack of live......  ;D
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