Premium Bond Warning

Started by mavell, October 10, 2017, 20:25:32 PM

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gus-lopez

Quote from: Chisme on October 11, 2017, 19:47:32 PM
Quote from: footy on October 11, 2017, 19:36:45 PM
Does this apply to those who have returned to the UK and purchased Bonds with a UK address?

I'm not sure which 'this' you are referring to, but these are the rules in the event of an holder's death:
      https://www.nsandi.com/files/published_files/asset/pdf/death-claims-brochure.pdf.

I love this bit in there ;
" On the claim form, we ask
whether you want the money
reinvested, transferred or repaid. "
On all the occasions I have done it & asked for reinvestment it has never happened. Same with my niece when she did her father's ( my brother )


guest4538

Quote from: mavell on October 12, 2017, 09:14:37 AM
Noticed the info warning states over £5000 can be a problem.   Spain or UK

The requirement for probate would be similar wherever money is invested in a sole name in the UK, only the limiting amount may vary according to the individual institutions' rules.

You can avoid such problems by keeping savings in joint accounts, and that applies equally to NS&I investments: apart from Premium Bonds and ISAs which can only be invested in sole names!

There are ways around the problem if you are resident in the UK. Make sure you have online access to you and your partner's NS&I accounts and that you have a nominated account in joint names. The nominated account can be a joint bank current account or a NS&I Direct Saver account. You can then move funds from Premium Bonds to the nominated account as and when you want, provided you don't inform NS&I of a bereavement. Perhaps not strictly legal but it doesn't affect anyone else, so who's going to complain! I'm only suggesting this if you would not need to go to probate for any other reason. If couples leave everything to each other in their wills and their savings, and their home are in joint names (not 'tenants in common'), then as far as I'm aware no probate is required whatever the total value of the estate!

This is of course only true for the UK where there is no inheritance tax for transfers between spouses or legal partners. If you're a resident in Spain then I think such activities might well be breaking the law, since there are inheritance tax liabilities even for transfers between spouses!


mavell

Noticed the info warning states over £5000 can be a problem.   Spain or UK

footy

Thanks for the info Chisme - have printed it out for future use.


guest4538

Quote from: footy on October 11, 2017, 19:36:45 PM
Does this apply to those who have returned to the UK and purchased Bonds with a UK address?

I'm not sure which 'this' you are referring to, but these are the rules in the event of an holder's death:
      https://www.nsandi.com/files/published_files/asset/pdf/death-claims-brochure.pdf.


footy

Does this apply to those who have returned to the UK and purchased Bonds with a UK address?

mavell

It will probobly take a while to get all the paperwork together I have to produce copy from Madrid of Spanish will.   Thank youy I will keep  a check on that situation.   


guest4538

Quote from: mavell on October 11, 2017, 14:36:25 PM
This month we won £25.    If the sum was under £6000 invested a will leaving the estate to surviving spouse (I believe) is all that is required.  I filled in the probate form myself and saved £600.   For folks older than myself this may not be so easy.  Example of questions on the Probate form 13 pages ish.   Did the deceased intend to return to the UK.  If not supply written proof if possible     What jobs did they have What jobs did the benificiary have.    etc etc.   I have provided this post as a warning that life gets complex if the premium bonds held are valued over £6000.    Of course anyone who does so should seek expert advice.  Thanks for the offerings above.

It might also be beneficial to hold off probate for a short while. The UK Government were planning new legislation to eliminate the fixed fee of £215 for probate to £0 for estates valued at less than £50,000 (but it would have increased to £20,000 for estates worth more than £2M). Those changes would have been implemented last May had we not had a general election: but it might still happen within the next few months!


mavell

#7
This month we won £25.    If the sum was under £6000 invested a death certificate and will leaving the estate to surviving spouse is all that is required to cash them in..  I filled in the probate form myself and saved £600.   For folks older than myself this may not be so easy.  Example of questions on the Probate form and tax form (both are required by NS&I) 13 pages ish.   Did the deceased intend to return to the UK.  If not supply written proof if possible     What jobs did they have What jobs did the benificiary have.    etc etc.   I have provided this post as a warning that life gets complex if the premium bonds held are valued over £6000.    Just check with NS&I if you wish to verify this situation.   Thanks for the offerings above.

guest4538

Mavell,

My deepest sympathies for your loss.

I understand your concern about the time it might take to cash in your partner's premium bonds. However you should still continue to receive the full benefits of the investment: I believe the bonds continue to be included in the monthly draw for up to 12 months after death.

I hope everything works out OK for you.


tandas

We had this problem when my mother-in-law died.  All her savings were in Premium Bonds her estate was worth very little.  But NIS wanted a probate certificate, it cost us £950 at the time with solicitor's costs being the main part of that.  We know now that we could have done it ourselves and saved a lot of that.  Our advice is to have separate accounts with enough money in them to get you through a couple of months if possible.  Also remember that here in Spain winnings on premium bonds are part off your income if a tax payer and should be declared in your tax return.  Only tax free if UK tax payer.  I believe they are reviewing the amount of bonds that can be held before the need for probate, most financial institutes have a ceiling of £20000.

Elgin

Applying for probate is the normal requirement only in the cases where a small amount of cash and personal possessions  are involved will an executor or administrator (technically not beneficiary unless they are the executor or administrator) be able to realise the assets.  If there is a house, stocks and shares, large bank balances in sole name, business assets etc then probate is a must.

Optomist

It might be that the estate was handled without Probate being required so there would be no Letters of Administration which together with a copy of the death certificate would be all that NS&I required to release the funds .

If that was the case then it appears its only NS&I that require probate to be granted . The beneficiary would have to apply for probate and that is a simple process and can be done online for no cost other than the Probate Court fee and 50p for each letter of Administration . The oath can be done at the probate court and costs nothing however some probate courts will suggest you have a solicitor take the oath so as to avoided a long wait for an appointment with them , it takes 5 minutes and the cost should be no more than 20 quid , if you have a solicitor you have used before they will often do it for no charge ..

Acting as either Administrator where there is no will or Executor if there is a will is in most cases a straight forward but a real money spinner for solicitors , once you look into the process it is clear to many people that its something they can easily do themselves  .

If you see someone without a smile give them one of yours .

bagwash

maybe it is me, but i dont really understand what you are saying, in as much as how are premium bonds any different to any other financial assets that a beneficiary may have to prove to obtain. certain legal obligations have to be met before any benefits are paid out.

mavell

If you have over £6000 in premium bonds. The  beneficiary of you will will not be able to claim this sum    NS&I you will have to prove that you are the legitimate recipient You will have to complete a Probate form.   If complete by a solicitor it will cost you £600   in addition a further cost of £250 for the probate to be auctioned.     HM Customs and Revenue form IHT401 will also have to be completed.  You will also have to Swear an oath in a solicitors office that what you have stated is correct.     If you think you can shift the value to your bank before death I suggest you also regularly check your password if on line.   When I went to shift the value before death The password was not accepted.  To renew takes a month.  We thought that Premium bonds were going to offer us more than the  small amount of interest from the bank.  Our life savings are in them.   Two months later they still are and will be most likely for a further two month.  If we had not arranged to Pre Pay for our funerals,  I would have had to go begging.  I Hope this saves some of you the Pain and anger this situation has generated.   David