Adelante gymnastics Club.

[tandas]

Unless the townhall gives their version I for one will take Roger's.  What has he got to gain from telling lies?  After all isn't this Mayor  the same guy who was in charge when we first bought our properties in 2004.  Why hasn't he responded to Roger's words and accusations?
Good luck to everyone trying to move on from this mess, Arboleas could have been the centre of excellence for gymnastics and the computer charity work instead somewhere else will now have these services.
And as for the email sent by Sophia's what a fairy story!!!

[languagesolutions]

This will be my last post ion this subject, but I feel I should explain why this whole issue gets me very angry.

I worked closely with the Mayor in 2011, and without my contribution I think the result would have been different.
We had an agreement:- everything would be transparent and we would discuss everything.

Of course I have accepted in the past 6 years that I have not been consulted about everything, in particular contracts signed without my knowledge, some to provide work for family members.
But I kept my sights on the bigger picture.

I arranged for the computer workshop to have a room in the nave, all discussed and agreed with the Mayor.
I arranged for Stacey to expand her gymnastics in Arboleas, months of work, all discussed with the Mayor and all with his agreement.

I did this because in my opinion it is the way Arboleas should expand, to be the centre of regional activities, and of course because both these activities was of great benefit to the local community.

I found out that Stacey had been given notice to quit by a text message from a friend of a friend.
I found out that the computer workshop had been evicted when I read it on the forum.
IS THIS ANY WAY TO TREAT A COLLEAGUE?
And when I tried to contact him to discuss this I got no reply.
Arrogant and autocratic are just two words that come to mind.

Anyway I am moving on, as is Stacey, and I hope is the computer workshop (although I was sad to have in effect a thank you and farewell call from David Shear who I worked with to get them in the room, and who is very ill).

Thanks for your honesty Roger.

I think your contribution to Arboleas has been second to none and I still think you should be part of the TH.

What I don't think is fair is you slating the TH without giving the whole picture. You give your particular version and have a go at them just with the facts you decide to give.

You talk about transparency, but avoid questions that you don't like.

I'm not an expert on local politics, but you were a TEAM. You say you found out about a lot of things by sms or people you know; what I don't understand is why you weren't talking to your TEAM, were you not at the 'juntas'? I honestly don't get it. Or were you expelled from the juntas?...

Have you ever told Cristóbal and the team about what you think of them or do you just put it on a public forum? Even if your decision is final, don't you think that you should try and be neutral instead of criticizing or at least bury the hatchet?

All your hard work TOGETHER to end up like this?

Hablando se entiende la gente ✌️

[mickandjan]

  oh dear.  Power corrupts and all that.  How sad.

[Roger]

This will be my last post ion this subject, but I feel I should explain why this whole issue gets me very angry.

I worked closely with the Mayor in 2011, and without my contribution I think the result would have been different.
We had an agreement:- everything would be transparent and we would discuss everything.

Of course I have accepted in the past 6 years that I have not been consulted about everything, in particular contracts signed without my knowledge, some to provide work for family members.
But I kept my sights on the bigger picture.

I arranged for the computer workshop to have a room in the nave, all discussed and agreed with the Mayor.
I arranged for Stacey to expand her gymnastics in Arboleas, months of work, all discussed with the Mayor and all with his agreement.

I did this because in my opinion it is the way Arboleas should expand, to be the centre of regional activities, and of course because both these activities was of great benefit to the local community.

I found out that Stacey had been given notice to quit by a text message from a friend of a friend.
I found out that the computer workshop had been evicted when I read it on the forum.
IS THIS ANY WAY TO TREAT A COLLEAGUE?
And when I tried to contact him to discuss this I got no reply.
Arrogant and autocratic are just two words that come to mind.

Anyway I am moving on, as is Stacey, and I hope is the computer workshop (although I was sad to have in effect a thank you and farewell call from David Shear who I worked with to get them in the room, and who is very ill).

[languagesolutions]

Wow, language solutions, you are like a dog with a bone, you just wont let go  will you.
staceys business dealings  and salary are between her and the th.  I dont think you should bandy figures about without no definite inside knowledge. Listening to gossip on both sides of the fence is the same as asking the guy in the local pub.
We only have rogers side of things as there is no way you will get the th  version on here.
Its time to leave it as the Mayor has decided and thats the end of the matter.
i just feel sorry for the young people with nothing to do.

I may be the only one willing to let things go...please read my posts if you would like to debate. As I said, business is business; Stacey has decided to move on... good luck 😉

Now, why Roger and other people including yourself feel it's necessary to make everything a biased issue is beyond me.

I give my objective opinion and have no intention of causing issues ✌️

[DLMcN]

Ben - to get a wider picture, take a detailed look at Stacey's personal FaceBook page (going back to September 14th), and also read the posts on the "Adelante Gimnasia Artistica Arboleas" FaceBook site. She writes, for example: "Thank you, it's so sad, but it was an impossible situation and [with] what was written about me, I feel it will be better if we were able to move to a new place". In addition, there are various other 'Forum' sites discussing this matter.... It does sound as if she is absolutely "at her wits' end".

[raysun]

Wow, language solutions, you are like a dog with a bone, you just wont let go  will you.
staceys business dealings  and salary are between her and the th.  I dont think you should bandy figures about without no definite inside knowledge. Listening to gossip on both sides of the fence is the same as asking the guy in the local pub.
We only have rogers side of things as there is no way you will get the th  version on here.
Its time to leave it as the Mayor has decided and thats the end of the matter.
i just feel sorry for the young people with nothing to do.

[languagesolutions]

What Ben Bamford has stated (obvioiusly as a spin on behalf of the Town Hall) is rubbish).
There was an agreement on the table which was fair to both sides and approved by the legal secretary, but rejected by the Mayor.
It would have agreed a reasonable fee for teaching Arboleas kids, taking into account the hire of all the equipment from Stacey's club
and for Stacey to rent the room for her private lessons, the rent to take account of water and electric costs.
There has never been any suggestion that the TH would pay Social Security or any other costs.
Social Security, insurance, cost of equipment, extra staff costs, cleaning etc was sll down to Stacey.

This could have continued as it had for the past `12 months if the Town Hall had been sensible.

Remember all this started when she was caleld in to the TH by thhe police and given notive to quit by 30th Sept with no explanation, and the British councillors were not informed.
Then the Mayor published on Stacey's facebook page that she had broken her contract, which her lawyer has confirmed is not true.

Hi Roger,

What I debate on the forum has to do with what I read and hear on both sides of the fence. I am not writing on behalf of the TH, or Sophia, or Stacey,... I write what I think and ask questions.

I am very grateful for your replies, and would appreciate more input from the TH, but I don't think it's fair just to have your biased opinion slating the TH for every decision they make.

The way I see it (I have no official info from the TH and I always ask for clarification, read my posts) is that the TH and Stacey haven't reached an agreement...it's business and it's not the end of the world. I have a neutral relationship with both parties and would love for Stacey to be successful whatever she decides to do...ask her yourself ;)

If you wish to continue debating then please publish facts and figures, so we can get the full picture. If not, leave things be. Business is business :)

[Roger]

What Ben Bamford has stated (obvioiusly as a spin on behalf of the Town Hall) is rubbish).
There was an agreement on the table which was fair to both sides and approved by the legal secretary, but rejected by the Mayor.
It would have agreed a reasonable fee for teaching Arboleas kids, taking into account the hire of all the equipment from Stacey's club
and for Stacey to rent the room for her private lessons, the rent to take account of water and electric costs.
There has never been any suggestion that the TH would pay Social Security or any other costs.
Social Security, insurance, cost of equipment, extra staff costs, cleaning etc was sll down to Stacey.

This could have continued as it had for the past `12 months if the Town Hall had been sensible.

Remember all this started when she was caleld in to the TH by thhe police and given notive to quit by 30th Sept with no explanation, and the British councillors were not informed.
Then the Mayor published on Stacey's facebook page that she had broken her contract, which her lawyer has confirmed is not true.

[felipe]

There are a loy of assumptions going on here about what Stacy get or does not get. I think it time to leave well alone in these assumptions.  Neither the TH nor Stacy have said what she is receiving, if anything.

[languagesolutions]

800€ a month minus 300 for being LEGAL..minus fuel to get there for the month at least 100.. plus any other expenses.
Trying to live off about 300/350..
Cannot be done!

That's what 99%? of small businesses have to deal with.

Having 800€ in your pocket before you even start and no rent/electric,... to pay for is more than a good start. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that Arboleas TH will do that for a local business.

The 800€ covers a lot of expenses, you then make your money out of the other members.

It is a known fact that in Spain, to make 1000€ a month being autónomo you need to be earning 3 times more. If you're on contract, receiving 800€ and don't pay rent, you're on a winner ✌️

Also, don't forget that if you are on contract, the TH is paying your social security (40% of your 800€ salary)...I think I'm going to pop in and see if I can get that for my business 😜

[raysun]

I understand all the equipment belongs to stacey so thats a massive expense to add to previous posters list and also for language solutions to add to his profit and loss account.
this is about the kids of the area  first  then business.
obviously the TH dont quite see it that way.

[mylo83]

800€ a month minus 300 for being LEGAL..minus fuel to get there for the month at least 100.. plus any other expenses.
Trying to live off about 300/350..
Cannot be done!

[languagesolutions]

The proposal was for Stacey to rent the room, paying a rent to the Town Hall, and also to have a separate contract to teach Arboleas children, paid for by the Town Hall.
The legal secretary prepared this option which I presented to the meeting but the Mayor rejected it.
No reason given.
He was adamant that Stacey could teach Arboleas children, and be paid for doing so, with a consideration of the fact that they would be using the very expensive equipment which is the property of Stacey's club, and that she could also rent the room for her private classes.

The problem was that he was specific that the Arboleas children could not mix with the children who were from other areas (and therefore paying).
This makes absolutely no sense.
Sophias have clients from Arboleas and outside Arboleas using a subsidized public building.
Also the Town Hall subsidized Spanish classes include students from Arboleas and outside Arboleas, mixed in the same class in a public building.

However a Mayor does not have to give a reason.
Nor apparently does he have to do basic maths.
Stacey was contracted to work 6 hours a week, providing 2 hours a week to each Arboleas child.
A class has a legal maximum of 10.
There are 41 Arboleas children.
You do the maths!
It worked before because Stacey could absorb the more advanced Arboleas children into her private classes where there was some space.
Then the Mayor, under pressure from 2 parents said she could ignore the contract for these 2 parents.
But she had already been attacked by the Mayor on her facebook page for not keeping to her original contract (which on that occasion her lawyer stated was not true, but no retraction from the Mayor).

In short,
She is fed up with Arboleas Town Hall.
And I feel angry that I spent a year with Stacey getting this activity in Arboleas, because I could see that it is a great thing for Arboleas.

By the way, it is not just me negative about Arboleas because we cannot see that there is a project to move forward post Brexit, given that the master plan for Arboleas in 2000 depended on a continual flow of UK residents.
I estimate that there are around 2500 habitual residents in Arboleas (the technical Spanish Government term to be on the Padron) whereas there are 4800 on the Arboleas Padron.
Does that not raise issues which need to be addressed?

Now, I'm going to talk from a business point of view. Personally, I don't know Stacey very well, but she has always seemed very friendly and professional. I was going to take my little one to her this year, but with all this palava and Estrella's siesta time, we couldn't do it.

So, back to business... I heard (or read) she was receiving 800€ to teach Arboleas kids (41); is that right? Now, I have never had my business classes subsidized by the TH, but that sounds like brilliant support; just 'autónomo' is now almost 300€.

I don't think Sophia or the bar, for example, receive a salary from the TH; and as far as I know, other THs just pay a salary for classes taught. So Arboleas TH were offering salary + private use...honestly, tell me examples of THs that do that; I might try and get it for my business lol.

Obviously there have been disagreements; but from a business point of view, with a TH salary as a base, you sort that out somehow.

If, as it seems, Stacey won't carry on, I don't see it as just the TH's fault; just like Roger's resignation...it's business. Good luck to Roger and good luck to Stacey and I hope the TH get someone else in. It's not the end of Arboleas' future, it's business 😉

[DLMcN]

Stacey's departure will be an enormous loss to the village of Arboleas - one which could easily have been avoided, it seems. It goes without saying that we wish her all the very best elsewhere.

[raysun]

Perhaps danny or one of the others who posted from the town hall recently in relation to Roger could  let the people that they represent  know what is going on here.
that would end speculation and the gossip now doing the rounds.

[Aileen]

How long do you give it before her room is used by another local business?  Something really does smell with all of this. Good luck to Stacey I hope that she finds somewhere in Arboleas to carry on her great work for locals. The unfortunate things is the Arboleas kids will have to start paying as they were getting it free before. Unless of course another kids gym miraculously appears in the vacated room.

[JohnJones]

Would be interesting to hear about th excluding non residents, is it about one village taking the Pish over another? Or otherwise? Spanish culture is not easy to decipher on many levels. With few explanations. Like shooting plastic ducks on the Pier. You lose. No cigar. Thanks for your money.
Build a resource and charge a premium to non residents. Simples. Coin it in. Not shut the future down.

Lots of non residents rave about Staceys Club. I guess because nobody else has achieved it. There's nothing there for young families, apart from Staceys.  Arboleas would strangle the goose laying golden eggs for dinner. It seems. The th doesn't set out it's stall very well. It presents as the rotten veg stall. IMHO. Sorry but that is how I see it.

[Roger]

Anyway I know Stacey feels very sad that she cannot continue to offer such a great opportunity for the children of Arboleas.
Over the past year she has built up such a strong group, after being told by the Mayor that there would be very little interest.
She would not be leaving if she had not been placed in an impossible situation.
It is down to the attitude of Arboleas Town Hall because I know Stacey has tried very hard to make it work, and I have had a lot of discussions with her.

I know that the parents in her club will work with her in her new location to ensure that she prospers,
and I know that those Arboleas parents who can pay will follow her to wherever she goes.
But as usual in life it will be the children from the more deprived families in Arboleas who will suffer.

[raysun]

Languagesolutions, i live in arboleas and i am very negative about its future watching what has been happening recently.
my understanding having met many spanish people locally that they love their children and all children for that matter.
ive said before i find it hard to believe that  the mayor doesent want children from outside mixing even though it seems tthere is plenty of room for all.  Its a joy to watch kids of all ages in the evenings  at the gym and using the tennis courts all mixing happily.
and yes  it would appear there is something else at play here but i dont suppose the th  will put it on the forum.

its going to be a very quiet place up there now  and even less business for the pool bar , whats next to go ??
Have a happy weekend all.

[Roger]

The proposal was for Stacey to rent the room, paying a rent to the Town Hall, and also to have a separate contract to teach Arboleas children, paid for by the Town Hall.
The legal secretary prepared this option which I presented to the meeting but the Mayor rejected it.
No reason given.
He was adamant that Stacey could teach Arboleas children, and be paid for doing so, with a consideration of the fact that they would be using the very expensive equipment which is the property of Stacey's club, and that she could also rent the room for her private classes.

The problem was that he was specific that the Arboleas children could not mix with the children who were from other areas (and therefore paying).
This makes absolutely no sense.
Sophias have clients from Arboleas and outside Arboleas using a subsidized public building.
Also the Town Hall subsidized Spanish classes include students from Arboleas and outside Arboleas, mixed in the same class in a public building.

However a Mayor does not have to give a reason.
Nor apparently does he have to do basic maths.
Stacey was contracted to work 6 hours a week, providing 2 hours a week to each Arboleas child.
A class has a legal maximum of 10.
There are 41 Arboleas children.
You do the maths!
It worked before because Stacey could absorb the more advanced Arboleas children into her private classes where there was some space.
Then the Mayor, under pressure from 2 parents said she could ignore the contract for these 2 parents.
But she had already been attacked by the Mayor on her facebook page for not keeping to her original contract (which on that occasion her lawyer stated was not true, but no retraction from the Mayor).

In short,
She is fed up with Arboleas Town Hall.
And I feel angry that I spent a year with Stacey getting this activity in Arboleas, because I could see that it is a great thing for Arboleas.

By the way, it is not just me negative about Arboleas because we cannot see that there is a project to move forward post Brexit, given that the master plan for Arboleas in 2000 depended on a continual flow of UK residents.
I estimate that there are around 2500 habitual residents in Arboleas (the technical Spanish Government term to be on the Padron) whereas there are 4800 on the Arboleas Padron.
Does that not raise issues which need to be addressed?

[adasingleton]

I don't know the full story etc but all the equipment belongs to Stacey .the TH payed for a certain number of hours to teach the arboleas kids anything on top you had to pay for .

[languagesolutions]

Sounds very strange...

Roger/Stacey/ TH: Could you clarify a bit? If TH are providing premises, material and salary, I find it reasonable to 'prioritize' Arboleas kids. Did the new contract make Stacey become self-employed or something like that, or were the TH now charging for using a municipal building? There must be more to it than 'not letting Arboleas kids mix'.

Re other issues: you sound extremely negative about the future of Arboleas Roger...after all you and your team's hard work 😓

[byrney]

Because they've lost Roger?

[Annastasia]

So if Stacey was able to move elsewhere how will the Mayor stop Arboleas kids going and mixing with other village kids.Beggars belief  .Why are the Town Hall going backwards instead of forwards.

[byrney]

Hopefully Stacey will have approached Zurgena Council who, I suspect, will be far more tolerant than, seemingly, the current Arboleas administration.

[Roger]

Yes Stacey has had enough.
I thought that we had sorted out a contract, but the Mayor imposed impossible conditions which will make it impossible for it to continue in Arboleas.
The basic condition is that Arboleas kids must not mix with kids from other towns.
As a result it is impossible to cater for the 41 Arboleas kids who are currently enjoying gymnastics in Arboleas.

Good luck to Stacey who will flourish away from Arboleas.
I know that she regrets that the children of Arboleas will suffer but she has to concentrate on her own sanity, which was affecting her children.

What people have to look at is the big picture.
This was bringing a professional gymnastics facility to Arboleas, giving local children the opportunity to develop their confidence and for some to advance to a high level.
It was also offering an activity every evening which brought together Spanish and British parents and children.
Without this sort of activity Arboleas will be on a downward spiral.
What is there to keep the young Spanish in Arboleas?
Yes houses are being sold rapidly, but mainly to second home owners.
With Innovation 14 many long term residents will soon be leaving, selling mainly to second home owners.
And with Brexit this trend will continue because it will become impossible to be a permanent 5 year resident.
I estimate that the number of habitual residents in Arboleas is around 2500. Arboleas is likely to become holiday homes for tourists.

Concrete pavements do not a community make.

[zilnor]

When I lived near Partaloa, I regularly used to have chats with two lovely elderly Spanish couples. They referred to Mayors in general,  : " they think they are Kings in their own kingdom, and do as they like " . Always said with a shrug of their shoulders and a " that's life" attitude.

[adasingleton]

It is with sad news it is shutting .a big round of applause to the town hall and others for f-----g it up .stacey and her team ,friends and family will see her continue the great work she does but somewhere else .good luck Stacey .

[raysun]

Is this definite.???
Without mentioning things that went on recently its sad to see the way things are going in both arboleas and albox.
The old ways are back with a bang.  As i said months ago self interests and self preservation and total power for a couple of people seem to be the order of the day.
i thought a post from the town hall said that  Staceys problems had been sorted but maybe she had enough .
anyway the best of luck Stacey in whatever and wherever you go onto next.

[Annastasia]

Words fail me  :banghead:

[freddie]

Just wanted to say how sorry we are to see that the adelante gym run by Stacey for the kids is closing at the end of October, quite shocked because we thought that had all been sorted.  All the best Stacey wherever you move to hopefully you will get sorted soon so the kids dont lose this wonderful facility.