Tower Block Fir

[Tetley]

Again off topic

Thatcher turned working people into home owning share owning low payed Tory voters,Blair was Thatcher,s best achivment,ie a sort of
mid  wing labour party,now we have folks working on min wage contracts paying for over priced housing on low wages and the lowest money rates for 100,s of years that carnt manage been turned into a socalist, buy a CRAP  Tory party that telling public sector wage caped workers that there is no majic money tree....after they have just bought 10 mp,s votes for 1 billion quid to stay in power to try and handle the biggest self inflicted european X up,since Hitler invaded Russia....and people are still paying for our Bank & Finance X up from 2008.

stand by for Socalizme in Number 10

still its not all bad......we might have some money in the pot for building control officers...with a fire door correct gap gauge and a local fire officer going round checking to make sure mains fire alarm systems were fitted in rented 2 storey and over buildings.

[Lynden]

Off topic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwMI3V0DDNk

people want fire doors,Alarms, SAFE affordable Housing,and well payed & staffed blue light services and our ex armed forces kids lookin after,not cast onto some park bench.

if it aint Carbine its gonna be another socalist leader ,coz theres more hard ups than there are wealthy now in the UK and fings is gonna have ti change for the masses.

You are certainly right about the gulf between the have's and have not's Tets. The problem is that the rich can't seem to understand that they have far more than they need and squeal if the are asked to give some back.
The other problem is that despite being poor and ill educated they keep knocking out more kids who just add to the poor pile (mainly).

[Tetley]

Off topic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwMI3V0DDNk

people want fire doors,Alarms, SAFE affordable Housing,and well payed & staffed blue light services and our ex armed forces kids lookin after,not cast onto some park bench.

if it aint Carbine its gonna be another socalist leader ,coz theres more hard ups than there are wealthy now in the UK and fings is gonna have ti change for the masses.

[Jo-JoB]

With regard to taking Aerial Appliances off pre-determined attendances, they did exactly the same thing to us at our station in Manchester, We had two pumps (fire engines) and a HPV (Hydraulic Platform Vehicle) what kids used to call a Simon Snorkel.

Massive bit of kit, but fast and maneuverable. I operated one for years, my colleague and I, could site it, get the jacks down, and be at full working height (90 foot) in 90 seconds.

But the powers that be decided to take it off pre determined attendancies, so it's turn outs dropped, and then they could ''justifiably'' turn round and say it wasn't needed.

What people never seem to understand, is that your emergency services are like an Insurance policy, you never want to use it, but it's vitally important that you have it, when you need it.

As I said, In 2002 we used to have two fire engines, and one HPV, there were 4 watches, that had 14 men each, 12 were on duty at any one time. you had 2 extra men to allow for holidays, specialist training and time off.

On station, there was a Station Commander, a Clerk, a Cleaner, 2 Specialist Fire Safety Officers and 4 operational watch's, of 14 men each, a total of 61 people.

Now in 2017, at one of the busiest stations in the UK, there is just 1 fire engine, 4 watches with 4 men per watch, they might get an extra man, if there is any extra staff available from other stations.

From 61 staff to 16, and still they want more cuts.

A mother and three children died in a house fire in Bolton today, my sympathies go to their family.

It cannot carry on, this has gone from a cost cutting exercise, to being a substantial risk to public safety. It's not just the Fire Service, it's all the emergency and medical services.

We must invest in our emergency services, they are our's and our loved ones only insurance policy.

[The Gardener]

To Edric and all your colleagues who serve our communities so well:

Thank you so much for all you do for us, whoever we are and wherever we are.  Your story is incredibly moving and I hope brings home to all of us how much we all need each other in this big wide world.

[Jo-JoB]

Excellent post Hogs,

[casablanca]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4657984/Grenfell-safety-consultant-urged-council-hide-failings.html

Of course this could be "false news" because never actually heard anyone say anything about this little gem, just read it in DM, but in my first post I said it sounded like back handlers to me.
But whatever we think of the press per se sometimes investigative journalism actually better than the police.

Ex fireman on fee of £ 244 k  after finding loads of faults told council how to hide them from Fire Service et al.
Well, I hope they thrown the book at him and his councillor buddies.

Why am I not shocked and surprised by this kind of news anymore (which I would suggest is not fake) . Terrible, terrible, terrible.

[JessicaH]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4657984/Grenfell-safety-consultant-urged-council-hide-failings.html

Of course this could be "false news" because never actually heard anyone say anything about this little gem, just read it in DM, but in my first post I said it sounded like back handlers to me.
But whatever we think of the press per se sometimes investigative journalism actually better than the police.

Ex fireman on fee of £ 244 k  after finding loads of faults told council how to hide them from Fire Service et al.
Well, I hope they thrown the book at him and his councillor buddies.

[Monkee]

Mel 20,
Your comment about this thread turning into a 'political point scoring thread'    Have you not seen and heard all the disgusting comments from the likes of Corbyn, his  bully boys, and  his followers making this a Political point, slagging off the Tories and Theresa May.   Also   including the Police and Fire brigade and anyone else they can blame for this tragedy.    There is no way that the numbers of Dead can be reported, when the Firemen cannot even reach most floors. The Press and the BBC are disgusting.     What can ANYONE realistically do, until the investigations are concluded.  The people who lived in this block, should be rehoused WHERE there  are places to rehome them. Irrespective of where in the country. They should just be grateful for a roof over their heads.  THIS TRAGEDY IS NOT THE FAULT OF THERESA MAY  or anyone else.   .It was a disaster, we have to manage it.

[zilnor]

Rod, well done to your step-daughter  :clap: Practical help is as important as donations of money.

[Rod]

Proud of my stepdaughter, she is putting in some voluntary work today for the Grenfell tower survivors.

[zilnor]

After the horrors of the Manchester, Westminster and Borough Market terror attacks , there was no rioting or calls from left wingers to make protest marches. Why now ? Oh yes, we had a general election and JC's party gained quite a lot of seats. A rush of power to their heads !
The Labour MP who won Kensington and Chelsea with just 20 votes, may have some explaining to do concerning Grenfell Tower. She was involved with local housing long before May became PM.

mel, every poster has expressed sympathy for those affected by this horrific fire.

My practical suggestion to helping them is for local councils to requisition all empty buildings which are habitable,  for use as temporary housing. There are plenty in my town and the population is around 80,000 so there must be thousands more in the area and other parts of greater London.

[mel20]

Absolutely disgraceful that this tragedy has turned into a political point scoring thread ....have you no empathy at all .... disgusting and disgraceful

[KJH3]

That is a very interesting article Jabba but there are those that wont allow fact to get in the way of fiction and enjoy the chance to have a go at those opposed to their views.
Politicians inviting people on to the streets to demonstrate is a very slippery slope leading to possible rioting next. Frankly i would have thought a politician inciting people to do this an offence. I sincerely believe there is a move afoot to overthrown the democratically elected party with more votes and more seats and replace it by one with less votes and less seats, where does this stop, where is the line that says enough is enough you have gone too far. Watching Newsnight last night i thought the interviewer was rude arrogant and only interested in getting her views across. Frankly the BBC is in the gutter these days, its time to cease the licence fee and let them free to face the market place. That would soon sort out some of these inflated egos.
If what you say above is fact, are the Labour party and unions trying to steer criticism away from them

[Tetley]

off topic

if memory serves me right,going back 25 years,the Fire Brigade used to inspect my flats as well because 4 storey multi occupency.

[zilnor]

Very interesting Jabba.

But T. May will still be blamed for everything.

In 2005 I bought a new build flat as an investment. I can confirm Tetley's last post . Also, if there are any gas appliances they have to have an annual safety check, which we have to show to our insurance company to get full cover.
Of course there are no doubt plenty of unscrupulous landlords who don't do what they should to protect their tenants.

As tintin has said, the emphasis is now on helping all those traumatised people to get back to a semblance of normality, if they ever can. And as quickly as possible.

In all towns and cities, there are unoccupied buildings. The local councils should take them over as temporary re-housing .

[jabba the cat]

how about this then fact or fiction or fake news

Not my research - just a copy and paste from a Spectator poster:

1 - the block of flats was run not by any council but by KCTMO. This body
is made up of 8 TENANTS, 4 councilors and 3 independent members.

2 - Labour hold the seat that the block is situated in.

3 - Labour run the London Council who manage the under funded London Fire Service

4 - incidentally Emma Coad the sitting Labour MP for that ward also sat on the KCTMO.

5 - the advise to stay put which Sadiq Khan has been so vocal about was given by the London Fire Service.

6 - the decision to change contractors during the refurb was made by KCTMO.

7 - the decision not to spend a paltry £138k on fitting sprinklers again KCTMO.

8 - the decision to create ALMO organisation such as the KCTMO was made under the Right To Manage legislation passed in 2002
as part of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act.

9 - this was put in place to give leasehold tenants a greater say and the ability to self manage, which has clearly proven to be a disaster.

10 - and which Govt was in a charge when this law was passed? Yup you guessed it Labour.

11 - Sadiq Khan as mayor of London Produced a report to say that the fire service did not need further funding.

12 -Emma Coad elected Labour MP was on the board of the Tenant Management group who are being accused of not listening to tenants.

                                                         

Banned from the forum if thats a protest on behalf of the people who tragically lost lives in the fire you could have fooled me it was the left using the tragic episode to vent their anger at the government of the day.
Hence the article above.







 

[Tetley]

Off Topic

in the uk i did the Landlord property rental bit,every Flat had to be double floored,mesh & plaster poured between roof beams,double fire lined ceeling plaster boards,fire doors,mains smoke alarms,stairs had to be under boarded with fire line board,steel fire escapes,fire blankets & extinguishers. and thiswas in the 1990,s

ive been amazed to read that this council type accomadation didnt have/doesent have really high speq fire safty stuff enforced by the councils,ie full fire alarm,alarm drill,s Sprinkler systems.

[mel20]

Well it didnt take long for the rent a mob to arrive demanding the removal of everyone from the PM to the local policeman,welcome to London 2017. :c023:
[Aa/quote]       what a despicable comment to make ....possibly in excess of 100 people lost there lives .....TM hadn't the balls to face the survivors she just ran away like the coward she is .....they have every right to protest and you come out with comments like that ....shame on you and I think you should be banned from this forum

[tintin]

With all this mud slinging on who or what was responsible are we not forgetting the residents who survived, who have lost everything and some who have lost members of their family, should we now concentrate on these people and make sure they are housed safely, counselled adequately and helped to replace the items they have lost as I'm sure many of them will not have been insured
also what about other high rise flats, although the authorities have said they will be inspected, what about the residents living there, would you live in one
Mike

[webejamin]

Well, can you blame em? Loadsa people dead, loadsa people homeless, and all they see is useless celebrities, politicians and royalty being treated to a front seat. Rent-a-mob are bound to get in there, it's what they do. Most people I know turn the telly off when the news comes on now, coz none of it is news anymore, the media are milking it and inviting trouble. Even the politicians are milking it.
gus-lopez is right, they'll never know how many were in the block, most of London is over populated, but that's old hat and doesn't count.
There must be plenty of empty apartments around West London to house the homeless, surely they could ring up the owners in China and Russia to see if they could be used for people to actually live in? Or is that going to far?   

[jabba the cat]

Well it didnt take long for the rent a mob to arrive demanding the removal of everyone from the PM to the local policeman,welcome to London 2017. :c023:

[gus-lopez]

We have just seen on the news people storming the local council offices demanding answers. People standing in the street screaming that the powers are holding back the truth of how many died. Relatives and friends demanding to know if their loved ones have died.
Stand back a bit.       We live in a world where we want it and we want it now.

Do they really think the council/government/H & S exc have the answers why yet?
Do they really think that anyone knows the figures yet as the brave services are working in perilous conditions and not been on all floors yet.
Do they really think anyone is yet able to state the full list of who has died.
We cannot imagine what they are going through but being led by some to act like a lynch mob will not help or speed the process, neither will screaming abuse at those trying to assess the situation.
I remember a certain politician, one who seems to have a new found love of being on tv in recent days, yesterday spouting that "We/They need answers"
That has not helped matters. It is beholden on leaders to lead and that means calming the situation while the job in hand in completed.

All the screaming, shouting, abuse and falling out on here, won't change what has happened, won't speed up the process and won't help those involved.
Until they/we have the  FACTS everyone would be better to let the services and authorities do their job.

I¡d assume that a fair few flats would have been sub -let .Quite likely they'll never have a 100% answer to how many & who have died ?

[zilnor]

KJH3
Excellent post.  :clap: :clap:

Problem is that the media absolutely love this sort of public reaction and will continue to stir it up as much as possible.
It helps nobody, least of all those who have lost loved ones in the most horrific way. We all have great sympathy for these unfortunate people and we can empathise with them.

Altair ,
" Feeling sad is fine but often it is for ourselves and not for those specifically involved" .
Don't agree.
I am not sad for myself, but I am very sad for all those affected by this horrific and tragic event.

I don't know what they are feeling because thank goodness, I have never had to deal with anything so traumatic . But I can empathise with them, as we all do.

[verwood]

Thank you   :bravo_2:

[byrney]

Off topic, but Altair reckons that s/he is not a "newbie", yet the number of posts currently equates to 9.  Sounds pretty new to me, but with such strong views suspect the s/he has morphed from a former avatar.

Anyway, welcome Altair, whoever you are.  :08:

[casablanca]

Yes, twojays  is right.
Off Topic:-
Just to add, I am sure most of us have had successful careers from which we became relative experts in various fields. In most cases these careers ended quite a long time ago and we should be aware that lots of things change over time, including our perception of how it was? I have a sign on my wall in a very prominent position which reads, "The older I get the better I was", it tends to keep my ego in check a bit. :67:

[KJH3]

We have just seen on the news people storming the local council offices demanding answers. People standing in the street screaming that the powers are holding back the truth of how many died. Relatives and friends demanding to know if their loved ones have died.
Stand back a bit.       We live in a world where we want it and we want it now.

Do they really think the council/government/H & S exc have the answers why yet?
Do they really think that anyone knows the figures yet as the brave services are working in perilous conditions and not been on all floors yet.
Do they really think anyone is yet able to state the full list of who has died.
We cannot imagine what they are going through but being led by some to act like a lynch mob will not help or speed the process, neither will screaming abuse at those trying to assess the situation.
I remember a certain politician, one who seems to have a new found love of being on tv in recent days, yesterday spouting that "We/They need answers"
That has not helped matters. It is beholden on leaders to lead and that means calming the situation while the job in hand in completed.

All the screaming, shouting, abuse and falling out on here, won't change what has happened, won't speed up the process and won't help those involved.
Until they/we have the  FACTS everyone would be better to let the services and authorities do their job.

[Jo-JoB]

Altaire how unfortunate that as a newbie you show such a cynical side to your nature.

Verwood
That comment says more about you than it does about Altaire, How unfortunate, an experienced poster, doesn't have the common sense or the good manners to realise, it doesn't matter how many little stars are under your name, We all have the right to hold and express an opinion.

[Altair]

i am not a newbie, but twojays is right.
Nuff said

[verwood]

Altaire how unfortunate that as a newbie you show such a cynical side to your nature.

[twojaysalmeria]

Is it just me or does anyone else reading some of these threads feel like calling out the score?? 30-15. 30 all. 40-30. DEUCE! Advantage....etc etc etc ad nauseum.

FFS - can you all please stop worrying at the arguments like a tongue probing an aching tooth? I would have thought that something as godawful as this disaster should merit sensible, even-handed and empathic thoughts and comments, not a version of mine is bigger than yours....

Rant over.

On another note, the LFB video made me run to check my fridge which is, thank goodness, metal backed. Still glad to have extinguishers and other equipment in house, though.

J

[JessicaH]

Me insult you !!! 
How?
Methinks the reverse is more the truth.
Just because I don't agree with your opinion I am regarded as a female numpty....with a brain the size of a gnat.
...something I actually find that very amusing.......

Must admit it does make me smile that you guys constantly feel the need to impart your area of expertise and  intelligencia quotient on the expectation all will believe it.

When in fact 50 years of experience, in my chosen field,  has proved to me that only the insecure have the need to do so.
Have a great day folks

[Altair]

Not taking offence ,Altair, simply explaining you cannot assume everyone has the same narcistic view of life as you have.
Even if your anonymous ego desires you to be more educated and intelligent than I.

That's fair enough ,
some people here are ex fire service / police service etc, and I respect their views that are pertinent and relative to their working  experience.
i have been involved for many years in  social psychology, and i believe this allows me to impart a balanced and informed view on these matters.

you do not have to accept my opinions, but unsure why you would feel the need to insult me?

[JessicaH]

Not taking offence ,Altair, simply explaining you cannot assume everyone has the same narcistic view of life as you have.
Even if your anonymous ego desires you to be more educated and intelligent than I.