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Author Topic: NHS  (Read 1779 times)
nibbler
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NHS
« on: January 12, 2017, 09:23:29 AM »

Bearing in mind the crisis in NHS which has been looming for some years now. Is this the time to consider reducing the N/I payments so that those who can afford  it seek private health care??
Nibbler.
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NHS
« on: January 12, 2017, 09:23:29 AM »

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Lynden
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2017, 09:57:41 AM »

If it was managed better there would be no crisis. Wasteful inefficient and not fit for purpose. Cronyism rife and good people unable to do their job. Around £1 in every £5 completely wasted.
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2017, 09:57:41 AM »

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webejamin
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2017, 10:07:23 AM »

If people can't afford private heath cover while contributing to N.I., that's it, they can't afford it, no shame in that, I've been there.
Why can't they carry on like I did most of my working life Nibs, pay their whack of N.I. and take out private health insurance?
Of course the answer to that is that more people are earning less these days, plus there's many using the NHS that don't contribute. I can't see how one group paying less can help the NHS. I think a good clear-out of top management might be a good start. 72
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2017, 10:07:23 AM »

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Tetley
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2017, 10:16:32 AM »

Bearing in mind the crisis in NHS which has been looming for some years now. Is this the time to consider reducing the N/I payments so that those who can afford  it seek private health care??
Nibbler.

its an intresting point Nibbs,in Spain a lot of people either pay full private or a sort of private & combined state care were they pay the standard NI plus a top up to a local private hospital.

i think the problem in the UK With the NHS is its just been over loaded and people have just been tit feed on no  care fee,s ie how many burger & kebab  & smoker consumers would refrain and health up a bit if they thought they were going to have to make NHS co payments.

Its a bit like the ID for care,it should have been done years ago,infact ive still got mi small white NHS  card with mi address,NI number on and DOB  from 1975 ,so the system was in place........

i think its all back to uk niss up over a pub syndrome,ie they let millions in,issue NI numbers.... bosh,unlike spain if yer an EU  free mover,were yer under retirment age,yer pay yer grand a year.
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2017, 10:16:32 AM »

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Rod
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2017, 10:20:26 AM »

Would it be better to nationalise it, get back to the old days when it was under one banner, not all these individual health trusts?
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2017, 10:20:26 AM »

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webejamin
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2017, 10:22:54 AM »

Would it be better to nationalise it, get back to the old days when it was under one banner, not all these individual health trusts?
bravo_2 Great post Rod.
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2017, 10:22:54 AM »

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Tetley
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2017, 10:29:14 AM »

Would it be better to nationalise it, get back to the old days when it was under one banner, not all these individual health trusts?

Fear not Rod,the re nationalise is on its way once we get the new SNP & LAB Govi between May 2017 and May 2020.


dont forget folks as a pensioner you can join the labour party for abought a fiver a month,lets make OUR  country Great Again Together.
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2017, 10:29:14 AM »

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GEman
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2017, 10:29:26 AM »

There was talk today on the news of whether people would be prepared to pay a couple of pounds extra a week to help fund the NHS,I wouldn't mind that but it should be paid directly to everyones local health authority not to the government in case they decide to use it for something else.
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2017, 10:29:26 AM »

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Tetley
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2017, 10:55:54 AM »

There was talk today on the news of whether people would be prepared to pay a couple of pounds extra a week to help fund the NHS,I wouldn't mind that but it should be paid directly to everyones local health authority not to the government in case they decide to use it for something else.

spot on,id certainly rather pay 20/ 30 quid to see a GP  rather than sit in A&E  for 4 hours.
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2017, 10:55:54 AM »

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Wrypop
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2017, 11:26:42 AM »

If it was managed better there would be no crisis. Wasteful inefficient and not fit for purpose. Cronyism rife and good people unable to do their job. Around £1 in every £5 completely wasted.

Absolutely spot on! Every two and a half days ONE BILLION pounds is absorbed. That's 117 billion a year roughly. Someone says move away from the Trusts and back to one organisation. Its all been done before - it changes 'shape' every few years with new 'ideas'. The only comparable organisation in the World was the Red Army!

Imagine giving an order at the top and hoping it peculates down through the system to the Care giver. Little chance.  There has been some very poor management over a number of years, however, good managers have been shackled by poor quality middle mangers who can not discipline/fire their poor underperforming staff. We have some awful doctors and nurses and porters, cleaners, etc. - yes, some are angels - but many are there for the ride, with behaviour and performance you would not believe or condone. As Lynden said, good people stifled by misfits and the system. The answer? After forty years working around and alongside the NHS - I don't have one. Great management is the answer but carnage would ensue with the Unions would be up in arms. Schools of Nursing everywhere to ensure when reaching the Wards the Nurse is competent and dedicated and well paid? Senior Nurses now are well paid generally. Junior doctors should be reminded of the Hippocratic Oath and paid on achievement and length of service. I could go on and on - I have? Sorry!
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2017, 11:26:42 AM »

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KJH3
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2017, 13:33:27 PM »

There is so much abuse of the system. I know people who attend to get over the counter tablets, aspirin, paracetamol and indigestion tablets etc plus bandages, plasters etc etc. When i challenged some one they said why should i pay if i can get them for free? this was was someone who could well afford to pay. The abuse must be enormous which i find offensive but what is more offensive is that the Doctors go along with it. In everyday surgeries they are people there who could treat themselves, take these people out of Surgeries and A & E and you start to reduce the problem greatly
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2017, 13:33:27 PM »

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sweetiepie
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« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2017, 14:19:22 PM »

After watching the programme 'hospital' last night and all the recent news on the NHS I am soooooo delighted I live here   clap
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webejamin
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« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2017, 15:03:11 PM »

NHS managers may not be good at delivering a good health service, but they aint half good at fiddling the statistics 72 crunching the numbers 72 some are just not even good liars 72

The above opinion is based solely on my personal experience and has no bearing on what occurs elsewhere.
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« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2017, 15:03:11 PM »

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nibbler
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« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2017, 15:12:15 PM »

Food for thought there Rod, and it would once again become the NATIONAL health system.
Why not let doctors and nurses run it? At least they know what's needed.
Nibbler.
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zilnor
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« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2017, 16:00:11 PM »

KJH,  Wry pop,
 clap :clap

If a £5 charge was introduced for every visit to the GP and A and E, that would soon end long waiting times at both the surgery and AE departments.
Too many people abuse the system.
Too many people use the system and not enough of them are paying into it.

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« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2017, 16:00:11 PM »

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casablanca
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« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2017, 16:12:12 PM »

Would it be better to nationalise it, get back to the old days when it was under one banner, not all these individual health trusts?
bravo_2 Great post Rod.

Genuine question for Rod & Webe -how would that make for a Management structure which is  more robust, efficient and accountable which, in my view, is 90% of the problem?

It has always been a political football whereby Labour has always believed it to be under funded and the Tories always hold the view that as fast as they are pouring cash in it is haemorrhaging out through unaccountable lethargic traditional public sector style management attitudes and work practices (not my view I hasten to add).
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 16:13:50 PM by casablanca » Logged
Jimel
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« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2017, 16:39:07 PM »

KJH3.   Totally agree! 13
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webejamin
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« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2017, 17:12:29 PM »

It's all a matter of "do we want it to work" and the answer is "no we don't" simply because there's loadsamoney to be had in the private sector. The more private, the more money, the people pay and we will collect. We're not in the health business for our health, or anyone elses.
NHS bosses motto's.
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tintin
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« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2017, 17:27:58 PM »

If you have to wait 4 hours or more in A & E to see a doctor how urgent is the medical emergency, surely some of the cases could see their GP or local centre which open fairly long hours, 7 days a week. As regards bed blocking with patients waiting for a care home or other help, could we not put them up in a hotel with medical staff on hand. I also agree a fee for when you see your doctor or attend hospital, like we have in Spain, I recently had to pay 45€ to see one or go futher to the hospital with my E111 card
only a thought
Mike
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lmj52
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« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2017, 17:57:06 PM »

If you have to wait 4 hours or more in A & E to see a doctor how urgent is the medical emergency, surely some of the cases could see their GP or local centre which open fairly long hours, 7 days a week. As regards bed blocking with patients waiting for a care home or other help, could we not put them up in a hotel with medical staff on hand. I also agree a fee for when you see your doctor or attend hospital, like we have in Spain, I recently had to pay 45€ to see one or go futher to the hospital with my E111 card
only a thought
Mike


Unfortunately you can wait 4 hours in A&E with life threatening emergencies. It depends what other emergencies are happening at the same time.
Also the E111 card was replaced in 2006, assuming you had the new EHIC card?
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Roger
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« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2017, 18:12:06 PM »

We do not have to pay to see an NHS doctor in Spain, nor do we have to wait days to see one.
Always been able to see a GP the next day at a time of my choosing.
And the many times we have used Urgencias, people get edgy if they have to wait an hour.

So what is wrong with the UK NHS?
The doctors say it is NOT that people are turning up at AandE who do not need to be there.
The problem is lack of beds and lack of funds.
Of course we all know that there is bad and inefficient use of funds, but that will not solve the funding problem because it is too large.
The FACT is that the UK NHS is underfunded.
10% less than France
30% less than Germany
70% less that Switzerland
And it will get worse with planned funding cuts in 2018.

So where would the extra money come from?
Tax rises? Why, when the Government already takes a big slice of people’s income.
The problem is priorities in use of money.
Why is the Government sending a permanent force of 800 plus tornado jets to Estonia? They could spend the money on the NHS.
Why is Estonia not increasing its military spending if they feel under threat?
I wonder what the NHS waiting list is in Estonia.

This does not affect me, but if you live in the UK and have a vote there, perhaps you should think about Government priorities, and not just accept the rubbish the people in power dole out.




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webejamin
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« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2017, 18:23:40 PM »

I have to agree Imj, in any of our local hospitals you can easily expect a 6 hour or more wait even if you're taken in by ambulance. That wait is before you see a doctor, then God help you if you need to be admitted. If you make a complaint, they deny everything, or blame the computer, usually both, but the records will show a completely different time scale.
Both parties have a dismal NHS record, but it's got dramatically worse the last few years.

Now it's chuckin it down with snow a102 so we'll have to wait even longer, I'm getting under the stairs shocked
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 18:38:18 PM by webejamin » Logged
Karen4
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« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2017, 20:34:48 PM »

Part of the problem is that there are too many people who think that A&E stands for Anything and Everything....
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ILLIA!
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« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2017, 23:02:05 PM »

Food for thought there Rod, and it would once again become the NATIONAL health system.
Why not let doctors and nurses run it? At least they know what's needed.
Nibbler.

I think you'll find that doctors and nurses are involved via the CCGs (there are 209 of them) created in 2012 to replace PCTs. and doctors and nurses have been involved since the introduction of PCGs in 1999.
https://www.nhscc.org/ccgs/   

The main problem in my opinion is that the service has been/is underfunded and the regular reorganisations of health authorities has also not helped.  Prior to PCGs there were Area Health Authorities, Regional Health Authorities, District Health Authorities, FPCs, FHSAs, SHAs and the list goes on.....You only have to think how much it costs in terms of the costs office moves, staff redundancies, etc etc. every time a new government gets in & has intentions of spending less, but setting the bar higher.  It's a not so very merry go round, that I got dizzy working on and decided to get off.

Unfortunately, I also suspect that it is going to get a whole lot worse, before it gets better.  https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/articles/brexit-and-nhs

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Nosun
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« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2017, 23:31:55 PM »

Part of the problem is that there are too many people who think that A&E stands for Anything and Everything....
    clap


Roger, the government have red circled the NHS for long enough now with the money in essence just disappearing. It is not under funding it's mismanagement. As for the Royal Air Force sending 800 Tornado's that would be more than 10 times the number we have! The Military and our defence forces have been slashed mercilessly whilst the NHS has had money poured into it.

When it is a fact that there are people walking around Gatwick and Heathrow asking where the nearest hospital is something is very wrong.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3765109/Embattled-NHS-trust-boss-quits-role-salary-benefits-new-job.html
 
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Tetley
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« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2017, 08:50:33 AM »

And of coarse the other problem will be staffing as i belive now Student Nurses have to fund there owne uni ..... so how will that work, ie big outlay to re pay,to earn 25k a year the numbers wont stack up and the other issue Without going brexit... is at least 3 kids in my lads circual of friends are NHS  nursing in the UK, that happens IF all these EU  folks no longer feel welcome and leave or the bone heads running the UK Asylum stick to there 35k a year rule ie you have to earn 35k min bit for the residency lark.....


to me all this is the elephant in the UK  room IE ,NHS,Housing,Transport seems to be" out ther on the to do list",wile the barmy bxggers and banging on abought Europe 24/7 and how bad it all is,when the medical in parts of europe is making the UK  look like an African state thats just bought a jet fighter with the peoples UN donated medical money...
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NorrieM
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« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2017, 09:08:38 AM »

Wonder how much a cut in foreign aid would help the NHS.  Foreign aid to a nuclear power and an Ethiopian girl band?  Any answers?
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PhillipJLloyd
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« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2017, 09:47:24 AM »

If your services are suffering from lack of funds, there should be no foreign aid, charity begins at home.
(If you ran a business and it was short of money, you wouldn't give it away. )
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zilnor
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« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2017, 12:01:10 PM »

While we are in the EU we have to continue to make foreign aid payments. Those billions would help the NHS, provide homes for the homeless etc etc.
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Nosun
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« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2017, 14:06:11 PM »

 clap Zilnor

It is also my understanding that 80% of our own people who want to be nurses with the RCN are turned down in favour of overseas people. I wonder how many of those are trained at our expense then leave?

The simple fact is that the infrastructure of our care systems are under immense strain from the sheer number of people. And some want more to come in!

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BassBunny
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« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2017, 16:10:27 PM »

clap Zilnor

It is also my understanding that 80% of our own people who want to be nurses with the RCN are turned down in favour of overseas people. I wonder how many of those are trained at our expense the leave?

The simple fact is that the infrastructure of our care systems are under immense strain from the sheer weight of people. And some want more to come in!


Didn't tony B-Liar enshrine Foreign Aid payments into law during his term in office? If so, it would take a change in the law to stop paying it.
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Nosun
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« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2017, 17:46:00 PM »

Very possibly. I know he was instrumental in repealing the death penalty for the offence of treason just before he began being treasonous.
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gus-lopez
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« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2017, 18:49:58 PM »

I was reading somewhere that 25% of the NHS budget goes to fund compensation payments ?
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LittleRichard
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« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2017, 19:33:06 PM »

Did you know that the NHS pay 25.7million pounds a year on giving people with Coeliac disease free food on prescription. Even though you can buy it in all supermarkets.....

Its madness


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kerash
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« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2017, 20:18:29 PM »

I have twin grandsons of 13 recently diagnosed with coeliacs. The only foods on prescription are quite basic and parents are given a list of type of products available. Also the free prescriptions end at 18 years.
Have you seen the prices in the supermarkets for gluten free foods. Actually cheaper in Spain.
Having worked in the NHS most of my life I used to go to lectures where I was stunned by the size of the annual prescription bill.
It would help if people were more willing to buy some of the common medicines over the counter instead of expecting everything on prescription.
But totally agree about waste. Been like it for years. But it's still the holy cow.



 
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