LOCAL ACTION ON BREXIT

Started by Roger, December 16, 2016, 13:34:02 PM

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Tetley

Quote from: PhillipJLloyd on April 12, 2017, 17:34:29 PM
People do like Arboleas because of the Town Hall and number of Brits, its not a true picture of the rest of Spain.
Have you ever heard an Estate Agent say property is not selling ??


IM  on the main road in ti Arbi,we now see the funeral van more times a week than we see  an agent or cement mixer..... :shocked:
Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol


PhillipJLloyd

People do like Arboleas because of the Town Hall and number of Brits, its not a true picture of the rest of Spain.
Have you ever heard an Estate Agent say property is not selling ??


Tetley

Quote from: Roger on April 12, 2017, 09:23:22 AM
Not what the local estate agents are reporting, or my e mail inbox.



or the lorry folks,Rog,there busy,its certainly going to be intresting when you collated you plus valor recipts in December,does make yer wonder how busy it would have been with a 1.45 pound and a remain vote,yed have probably needed an hasistant ti cope with it all Rog   :))
Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol

Roger

Not what the local estate agents are reporting, or my e mail inbox.



Tetley

#20
Intresting read all relevent ish to Arboleas,ie uk punters holding off,until a deals done/re done on cits & meds

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/12/uk-retirees-less-willing-to-move-abroad-after-brexit-vote-poll-finds
Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol


Tetley

Looks like a great start Rog....5 days into A50.....with the UK going head to head with Spain/The EU over security co ops and Gib......May has certainly hit the ground running.
Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol

Tetley

#18
http://www.itv.com/news/2017-03-27/brexit-gibraltar-could-become-bargaining-chip-in-article-50-negotiations/


bit of hard ball on this will also be handy for a Cataluna reffo distraction.....that winding up again......in the courts


intresting times.
Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol


Tetley

Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol


Tetley

#16
There we go Campers,Spain will be dealing with yer all through the 27 state block and not on its owne . Best Expect  a HARD deal if it goes to the wire,because Spain doesent want the Catalans going wayward and the EU  must detair other states from leaving or the full project folds

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-spain-politics-brexit-idUKKBN14J1C1?rpc=401&


however dont get to reved up with it all,coz the UK  elite & Monarche wont want a UK Union split,or a Corbin SNP  joint ticket running the UK, a Brexit burial with upset punters will be far easyer to manage.
Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol

Tetley

#15
Rog

another Idea for Arboleas to attract  now Brexit vote limited buyer numbers is

give new buys  1 years free IBI  ie the town hall pays it/we all do

also reduced building licence fees for new buys having work done in the first 24 months

also put a welcom pack together,ie photos of Arboleas over the years on how its developed,a basic intruduction to the polatics and how
Cristóbal helped and has formed Arboleas since the transision years of the 1980,s enfersicing he is one of the valles longest seving Mayors and the local polatics are pro active and stable and  EUROPEAN/BRIT  citizen friendly ( a very big selling point )

also a Lay persons legal guide, ( giving current legal guidelines and not a load of Brit invented lay legall bollxcks )ie basics of buyng a car,registering at the docs, ect ect.

also if poss a new Arboleas" homes for sale in Arboleas" web site run by the town hall,ie people can put info on the  site free with vids & pics and contact details of there homes.

basikly Rog if you and the town hall want punters yer going to have to lead from the Valle front and be very pro active in reduced trading times.

 sell the village as if you were all running a SL  company with a big loan on yer homes and had to earn to eat,also bear in mind this brexit bollxcks wont last for ever and the UK  is going No were ... on its own... in spite of a big red bus. :wink:

:thumbsup:

https://www.propertyinvestortoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2016/12/fewer-britons-buying-property-in-spain-after-brexit-vote



from the LSE 
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Brexit-Six-months-on.pdf
Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol


Tetley

#14
Rog were all on the same hym sheet,yes there are probebly 100,s of local non EU  citizens in the valle but they will all meet the current criteria to reside in spain,

example people of south american decent and were there home country of origin was a spanish coligne have an historic right to apply and live in spain as a spanish citizen.

basickly IF  the uk comes OUT  of the EU  with a hard brexit,then the UK  will be at war with the EU.... Without a shot been fired,a sort of uk/ eu cold war.

i think theres a lot more chance of endless court cases and possibly a new co eltion government than there is May sorting any form of brexit,there just to divide and they all want diffrent things,ie hard,soft,not sure Brexits.

as i said very intresting 2017 on its way.

just as a side issue,the lorry lads are still busy both ways ie buyers sellers ,renters and the agents are still selling to Brits but in smaller numbers than pre  reffo days. ( if the price is right ie 125/ 150 k e villas with papers )
Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol

Roger

Seems that you cannot tell a joke now without some people taking political offence.
The UK used to be very tolerant. What has happened?

As for GIB and a future deal for UK citizens who want to move to Spain, I do not see how the two are linked.
The first is abour sovereign rights.
The second is the Spanish Government granting rights to UK citizens to live in Spain/
NOTHING to do with the EU. It is exactly the same as the UK giving rights to Pakistani citizens to live in the UK. Nothing to do with the UK or with the UK taking control of Pakistan.
We should understand that there are many non EU citizens living in this area. What Arboleas Council is concerned about is that we need a continual flow of UK citizens to keep this area alive, and therefore no administrative barrier to deter thsi movement.


Tetley

#12
Quote from: casablanca on December 18, 2016, 15:36:26 PM
Interesting thought - what if UK got a special relationship with Spain regarding residency etc. by using Gib as a bargaining tool, could this be a goer do you think? Or am I being a bit naiveté?  A lot of Gibraltarians may not be in favour of course and anyway my guess is that even if Spain were keen the rest of the EU would veto?

Gib will be a tool H,one of my lads   mates on the 24th of june said to him,does this mean were getting Gibralter back Dan " its deffo a talkin point.

the other point is all the rules are in place now,for non EU Cits to reside.i know because my kid chased round the national police station, forigners office, courts to get a game plane of what he would need for spanish citizenship.

the basic jist is/ was ( verbal guide only from approx jan 2016 )
24k min per year income
private meds
works contract
uk police report
spanish national police report
2 written exams at approx 400e each to sit in spanish.

apparently now you can only apply on line as well.

he has just been sent the lates info,and at some point when he is exam clear this summer will have a look.

anyway on a lighter note... gary Linikers Possed the psnsion Brexitters off.... :clap:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/gary-lineker-have-i-got-news-for-you_uk_5856a654e4b0e9baa877c503

Luv It   :))
Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol

casablanca

#11
Interesting thought - what if UK got a special relationship with Spain regarding residency etc. by using Gib as a bargaining tool, could this be a goer do you think? Or am I being a bit naiveté?  A lot of Gibraltarians may not be in favour of course and anyway my guess is that even if Spain were keen the rest of the EU would veto?

Tetley

#10
Its going to be intresting Rog,il have a euro with yer..... they wont full  split,as they wont split the uk union,what there asking is like saying Yorkshire is leaving the UK  because its sick of been run by a southern Government in London, BUT  if they split ,it will be full on and hard, because its the only way to show the other states.... not to.

as for non EU  Spanish residency / visas ,the rules are already in place now, and IF  these are amended to encompass the new EU  citizen less Brits,ilbet yer another euro,that Gibralter is brought onto the table at some point with Spain wainting shared Soveringty.

intresting times   :outtahere:
Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol

Roger

Whatever the legal opinions, the UK will leave the EU.
It will not be a clean break because it would be chaos, and when the official break happens there will be a lot of loose ends to sort out, which will take years.
That is for the people in the UK to worry about, although I suspect that most are ignoring the problem.

As far as I am concerned my only responsibility is to protect my town and its people in the process.
It is the Spanish Government, NOT the EU, which will decide on the status of non EU citizens who live in Spain, or who want to move to Spain.
I suspect there will be several years on uncertainty after Brexit, so it is sensible that we set out the issues now.

We need the UK to continue its bi-lateral agreement on Health care for UK citizens.
The other issues will be up to the Spanish Government, hence this start of the action to present the issues to Spanish MPs.
Spain needs UK tourists, in whatever form, so in my opinion it is a matter of emphasising the action which the Spanish Government needs to take (or in reality not actually change anything!) to ensure that UK citizens continue to treat Spain as their destination of first choice.

Regarding my earlier plea for people to write to their UK MP and the PM and any other person with influence, I have already done so from Arboleas Town Hall.
I have been asked to publish a letter for people to copy and send on.
I consider it best if each letter is individual, HOWEVER a copy would be better than nothing, so I will soon be publishing a letter to be copied if people wish.

On a general point, I have published the 2017 Financial Statement for Arboleas on my web site (ww.arboleaslive.com). This shows that we are in a very good state, with everything now coming together. For the governing team in the Town Hall we are very positive, but obviously concerned at the possible effects of Brexit.




Tetley

#8
Thank you Zills  :)

fing is i looked into the what if of this lark 2 years ago,ie visa,s rights to reside as a non EU cit,some of it i printed on here,only to be told.....on no tetley we have our residency and people from russia live here.......... and here we are,looking over the free movment cliff.

from what i have gleaned from the prospective,this end is that we are entering un charted waters for the EU so a deal will need to be done,wich could be very difficult given that the UK  is now veiwed on the lines of South Carolina & confedrate states of 1861  ie its going to be very hard ball,infact some think the UK should be thrown out,for causing trouble because we never realy were a full member ie with our own currency & non shengan  ( and these are the more pleasent comments )

basikly at the minute the UK is been seen as been in a time warp,were  the Elizebeth the 1 st is on the thrown and not Elizebeth the 2nd ie were Britiana Rules the waves.

as for making contact in the big smokes... its a very diffrent place from rural S pain and most of the Spanish big Citys rival any in Europe,and the cival servents & policy makers

a ) wont miss resident Brits
b) get payed with our without the uk in the eu

but Roger is correct,it is going to decimate the service type local industrys,in the worst case of the removal of free movment rights ussuming it happens.

its all abought Mrs May now for Arboleas & Valley and her Broken "Bastards " ( apparently there,s at least 40 new tory bastards mp,s now )Tory party.

the other thing is people are pinning there hopes on Corbin,how ever,he has been euro septic for year as the hard socalist belive that the EU  is a fedral empire of capitalists keeping the people down,the only good news is,he wants free trade,wich will involve free movment,so for me even if labour did get elected with a co eltion,we will still be looking at a Soft Brexit,and if we get a soft brexit....we may as well just stay IN.

Very intresting times  :)


http://uk.businessinsider.com/jo-maugham-article-50-already-triggered-brexit-government-2016-12
Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol

zilnor

Tets,
You don't need to keep up with anyone. You are as sharp as a knife.  As my dear old Gran would say, ". You are as bright as a button dear ".
A big compliment !  :luv:
:banana-santa: :banana-santa:

Tetley

Quote from: zilnor on December 16, 2016, 17:00:36 PM
Roger along with others, is planning positive action to protect the rights of ex-pats.  :clap:

Tetley as usual , is being negative about everything concerning  Brexit, saying "......there is nothing you or Arboleas council can do......" .

Cheer up Tets, the exchange rate is 1.19 and my forecast of 1.20 by Christmas could be accurate  :lol:   :wave:


Zils its only my veiw,

ive come a long way from my remidial education day,s of the 1970,s,just rember for me,tying to keep up with the bright folks is a real challange and if i do manage it, well the challange transfers to an achivment and win win....

:laugh:
Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol

zilnor

Roger along with others, is planning positive action to protect the rights of ex-pats.  :clap:

Tetley as usual , is being negative about everything concerning  Brexit, saying "......there is nothing you or Arboleas council can do......" .

Cheer up Tets, the exchange rate is 1.19 and my forecast of 1.20 by Christmas could be accurate  :lol:   :wave:

Tetley

#4
Its gonna be intresting Rog , personally i dont think they will split the UK Union or grasp the nettle of the 27 member state shafting,but if any body can X a good thing up,im sure the Brits will manage it.



:)
Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol

Roger

Totally disagree that we should sit back and see what happens, when we can influence the outcome.
The important thing is to warn the Spanish Government of the economic consequences for areas like ours, because in Madrid it will not be obvious.

As for the area surviving without us, well yes after a fashion. But remember that back then the local population was self sufficent.
Now they have mortgages, car loans, children who need education costs. They do not have donkeys anymore and live on a plate of migas a day.

Tetley

#2
Rog
IF they come OUT it will be a hard Brexit,and lets be honest,if there was a political Brain in the Tory party......they would never had had the Refferndum in the First Place, so they deffo wont be able to undo 40 odd years of legals in 2 to 10 years

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-residents-idUKKBN14528S?rpc=401&

there is nothing you or Arboleas council can do,because basikly were heading into the Fog of  a  Dis uninted Kigndom Brexit..../ politicaly Ruderless

and as for Arboleas and the valley,yes it will hit commerce,but there area will survive as it has done for 1000,s of years.

basikly everybody has to sit tight,see what the courts come up with,plan for 90 day visa,s  and paying private medical.....in the very worst case.

my veiw is that Labour is EU Ruddlerless at the mo and her majistys opperstion comprises now of young SNP Nicky and our Brit based UK finance houses,Banks,Insurance co,with the od car plant thrown in.


were heading for a very difficult 2017,but at least were not all in Alepo

keep smilling folks  :)

ps Rog
if yer still in the Labour party,a call or meeting with Corbine wont do any harm,im sure a few of us will get hour hand down and give yer somthing towards yer flight & accoms,infact yer can stick me down for 50e now to get the Arbi  ball rollin.

Analogue mechanically  trained 1970,s Fitter  dear living  in a gone digital/tecno mad O Dearie me world......thankfully left behind with it all ,enjoying the bliss of NO phones ,  apps and  shortage of the intellectual, wile still managing to hone underachievement on the day to day in the sun  lol

Roger

ACTION TO PROTECT OUR COMMUNITY
______________________________________________________________________
This refers to our community here in Almanzora, which is under threat due to Brexit.
__________________________________________________________________________________

There is a lot of discussion and publicity around the forthcoming negotiations between the UK and the EU, but what should concern us directly is how Brexit will affect the future of our local region.
If the UK citizens do not stay and if new UK citizens cease to arrive this region will die in 5 years. Many local supermarkets, bars, shops, market stalls will close. The local Spanish builders and car showrooms will have no clients, and the local Spanish will not be able to feed their families.

There is a lot of concentration on the protection of existing UK residents in Spain, and the protection of existing Spanish workers in the UK. The reality is that this is unlikely to be a problem, particularly for existing UK residents who are registered as permanent residents in Spain.
However this does not address the underlying problem.
In Arboleas 10% of houses change ownership every year, mostly UK citizens selling to UK citizens. Also around 10% of UK owned houses are rented to UK citizens.
Without a continuing movement, with the right of UK citizens to come to live here, it will not be possible to sell or rent your house, the local community will die, and the local economy will collapse.

There has been some comment that the gap will be filled by Belgians. This is an illusion. Most Belgians, which are still a small minority, are buying as tourists, only coming out for a few weeks each year. That will not sustain the economy.

There are several action groups which have been set up to demand action to protect the rights of existing UK citizens in the EU. However our rights are linked very closely with the future of this region, and this region is distinct from most other regions in Spain and in the other EU countries. This is because it was a very poor region which has befitted immensely from UK permanent residents.
Without us the region would die, the younger Spanish would leave, and Spanish families would be destitute.

The other issue to understand is that the forthcoming negotiations will not include the Spanish Government, but many of the actions which can take place could be done unilaterally by the Spanish Government, albeit in collaboration with the EU.

In Arboleas we have prepared a detailed resolution to be approved at the next Council Pleno in January. This explains the problems which will be faced by this region and urges the Spanish Government to take the necessary action.
We have already discussed this with the Regional Government MP who represents this region, and we will be working to get the support of other Towns and also local commercial organisations.
_________________________________________________________________________________

The following is a summary of the points from this resolution.

ACTION REQUESTED OF THE SPANISH GOVERNMENT
In the light of the economic consequences for this town, for the Almanzora region, and for many other regions of Spain, we are asking the Spanish Government, by unilateral decisions and as part of future bi-lateral negotiations with the UK Government, to ensure the following when the UK leaves the EU within the next 2 years.

1. Continuing right of residence for all UK citizens who are currently permanent residents in Spain.
2. Right of residence for UK citizens who wish to move to Spain, and who are financially self sufficient.
3. Security of the right to vote at municipal elections for all UK citizens who are registered on their local Padron.
4. Continuation of the current bi-lateral agreement which by which the UK Government meets the cost of medical treatment for UK pensioners.
5. Guarantee that the existing Health Convenio will continue to be applicable to UK citizens who have not yet reached pension age.
6. Guarantee of access to Social Services for UK citizens who are registered as permanent residents.

We urgently ask that these issues are decided on before the UK leaves the EU, as part of the negotiations which will take place with the Government of the UK.
These negotiations will of course include the rights of the many Spanish citizens who work in the UK.
_________________________________________________________________________________